Trump 2.0

[jack123]

I'd never heard of it but my wife is completely hatstand

Well I’ve just spent 15 minutes researching this completely hatstand comment, and now my head hurts. All to do with some chap from Viz called Roger Irrelevant, I think

 

[TheLoneRanger]

President tells US to 'hang tough' over tariffs as Land Rover pauses shipments to country

Donald Trump imposed a 25% tariff on foreign-made cars as part of his economic plan to "supercharge" the US economy.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[monmouth]

President tells US to 'hang tough' over tariffs as Land Rover pauses shipments to country

Donald Trump imposed a 25% tariff on foreign-made cars as part of his economic plan to "supercharge" the US economy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Begging the Fed to save his thick empty headed ass now I see.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

Roger Irrelevant was a comic strip in Viz. “he’s completely hatstand” was the byline.

 

[rockinj]

Curious on this one - what stats are out there that show manufacturing grew because deindustrialization is very very well documented.

UK Economy in the 1980s - Economics Help

The 1980s was a period of economic volatility and structural change. Graphs and stats to show recession of 1981, boom of late 1980s and whether the 1980s left a positive legacy for economy.

www.economicshelp.org

Closest I can come up with, graph from ONS.

“Output” is the word I have missing from my post.

Yes there was de-industrialisation but with that doesn’t mean manufacturing died it was evolving to a more modern industrial base.

Heavier industry eg shipbuilding obviously declined etc but other areas grew.

Overall the sector did increase output. But the services sector grew dramatically especially areas like financial services.

Now again this is all for debate but the idea that manufacturing doesn’t exist anymore which is often the line that is trotted out is incorrect.

I’ll say it again though we could support our manufacturers and smaller businesses but many of us will talk the talk but in the end buy cheaper goods which undercut UK.

Now we’re back to the tariff debates. You could yes protect more but that has consequences as we’re seeing playing out.

It’s an incredibly complex issue. But the vast majority of economists would understand the need for modern economies to move up value chain and with that a pivot towards lean high tech manufacturing.

 

[jack_lord]

UK Economy in the 1980s - Economics Help

The 1980s was a period of economic volatility and structural change. Graphs and stats to show recession of 1981, boom of late 1980s and whether the 1980s left a positive legacy for economy.

www.economicshelp.org

Closest I can come up with, graph from ONS.

“Output” is the word I have missing from my post.

Yes there was de-industrialisation but with that doesn’t mean manufacturing died it was evolving to a more modern industrial base.

Heavier industry eg shipbuilding obviously declined etc but other areas grew.

Overall the sector did increase output. But the services sector grew dramatically especially areas like financial services.

Now again this is all for debate but the idea that manufacturing doesn’t exist anymore which is often the line that is trotted out is incorrect.

I’ll say it again though we could support our manufacturers and smaller businesses but many of us will talk the talk but in the end buy cheaper goods which undercut UK.

Now we’re back to the tariff debates. You could yes protect more but that has consequences as we’re seeing playing out.

It’s an incredibly complex issue. But the vast majority of economists would understand the need for modern economies to move up value chain and with that a pivot towards lean high tech manufacturing.

Economics
Am I an economist? Well yes, or was back then.
That information is quite basic and a good base for what happened in toe 80's and early 90's. Manufacturing output if you include industrial production is painting a false picture as it includes electricity and gas. Most economists will agree that manufacturing in the uk declined which I would say in the world economy was always going to happen. Are we in a better or worse position - that is open to debate.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

What Thatcher did in the 80s was political. The economic effects were peripheral for her. It was ideological.

 

[jack_lord]

What Thatcher did in the 80s was political. The economic effects were peripheral for her. It was ideological.

Did she set out for it to be an ideology?
The Falklands saved her political career.

 

[rockinj]

Economics
Am I an economist? Well yes, or was back then.
That information is quite basic and a good base for what happened in toe 80's and early 90's. Manufacturing output if you include industrial production is painting a false picture as it includes electricity and gas. Most economists will agree that manufacturing in the uk declined which I would say in the world economy was always going to happen. Are we in a better or worse position - that is open to debate.

I never said it was perfect and I’m not interested in a debate about the 80s this is more about a comment on the Trump strategy which will have little to no positive impact in terms of on shoring manufacturing or protecting in a positive way imo.

So how would you reverse the trend of manufacturing jobs moving overseas or having more labour intensive operations instead of machines? I’d be very interested if you have the knowledge.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

Did she set out for it to be an ideology?
The Falklands saved her political career.

Yes she did. But I’ve always been unconvinced Foot’s Labour would have won in 1983 regardless of the Falkland Islands and how unpopular Thatcher was. They were a shambles.

 

[Neath_Jack]

There’s no myth about manufacturing dying, Sony, Fords and now Tata steel making plus loads of others that have gone, so to say it’s a myth is not true, as much as you would like it to be.

Not dying, absolutely decimated. To add to yours:
Metal Box gone.
BP Llandarcy gone.
BP Baglan Bay gone.
Borg Warner gone.
Cam Gears gone.
Orion gone.
3M’s gone.
Alcoa gone.
Smiths gone.


And that’s just the big ones in the locality. You can add literally thousands of other smaller manufacturers locally.

 

[Neath_Jack]

I see our wonderful patriots, who are self proclaimed supporters of British farmers, are now advocating the sale of chlorinated chickens over here. They are so thick and sit on the biggest swings in the world.

 

[rockinj]

Not dying, absolutely decimated. To add to yours:
Metal Box gone.
BP Llandarcy gone.
BP Baglan Bay gone.
Borg Warner gone.
Cam Gears gone.
Orion gone.
3M’s gone.
Alcoa gone.
Smiths gone.


And that’s just the big ones in the locality. You can add literally thousands of other smaller manufacturers locally.

And you can add many that have replaced them too. The biggest UK manufacturers sadly tend to be located away from south wales and many require academic education now.

That’s my point it’s changed, it’s evolved significantly since the “golden days” we have things like the min wage now which will have had big impacts.

Nothing lasts forever you have to keep evolving to stay ahead. Port Talbot steel works won’t be around around 20 years it’ll have to evolve as we all know.

Nostalgia is a big problem in South Wales. I’d love to have more manufacturing companies, but I’d also love more high paying service companies. We need more private sector down here. But that’s a whole different discussion and many on here wouldn’t like the prescription to turn things around.

The point I was making which is true is that even now we do have a good manufacturing base and we have some global companies but it has moved up value chain. The jobs we’re talking about are very very well paid, highly skilled.

The old manufacturing/industrial jobs that many are missing have either moved away or been replaced by robotics and obviously regulations related to climate change etc.

Mining was on the decline well before Thatcher. Wilson was correct to talk about the “white heat of technology” that right or wrong was the future and you either embrace adapt etc or die.

But again back to Trump… his policies will make no to no difference in a positive way but will cause higher prices, slower growth and global retaliatory action which just means everyone loses.

If people have some good ideas to boost manufacturing I’d like to hear it.

One example could be to massively increase the amount of engineers. But that doesn’t necessarily help the “deprived communities” the ones that suffered with the changing economic landscape.

 

[Smurph]

And you can add many that have replaced them too. The biggest UK manufacturers sadly tend to be located away from south wales and many require academic education now.

That’s my point it’s changed, it’s evolved significantly since the “golden days” we have things like the min wage now which will have had big impacts.

Nothing lasts forever you have to keep evolving to stay ahead. Port Talbot steel works won’t be around around 20 years it’ll have to evolve as we all know.

Nostalgia is a big problem in South Wales. I’d love to have more manufacturing companies, but I’d also love more high paying service companies. We need more private sector down here. But that’s a whole different discussion and many on here wouldn’t like the prescription to turn things around.

The point I was making which is true is that even now we do have a good manufacturing base and we have some global companies but it has moved up value chain. The jobs we’re talking about are very very well paid, highly skilled.

The old manufacturing/industrial jobs that many are missing have either moved away or been replaced by robotics and obviously regulations related to climate change etc.

Mining was on the decline well before Thatcher. Wilson was correct to talk about the “white heat of technology” that right or wrong was the future and you either embrace adapt etc or die.

But again back to Trump… his policies will make no to no difference in a positive way but will cause higher prices, slower growth and global retaliatory action which just means everyone loses.

If people have some good ideas to boost manufacturing I’d like to hear it.

One example could be to massively increase the amount of engineers. But that doesn’t necessarily help the “deprived communities” the ones that suffered with the changing economic landscape.

Enhancing workforce skills with better access to training. The take up in apprenticeships in this country good be hell of a lot better.

Encouraging business to invest more advance manufacturing technologies such as automation and robotics would be a start.

 

[Neath_Jack]

And you can add many that have replaced them too. The biggest UK manufacturers sadly tend to be located away from south wales and many require academic education now.

That’s my point it’s changed, it’s evolved significantly since the “golden days” we have things like the min wage now which will have had big impacts.

Nothing lasts forever you have to keep evolving to stay ahead. Port Talbot steel works won’t be around around 20 years it’ll have to evolve as we all know.

Nostalgia is a big problem in South Wales. I’d love to have more manufacturing companies, but I’d also love more high paying service companies. We need more private sector down here. But that’s a whole different discussion and many on here wouldn’t like the prescription to turn things around.

The point I was making which is true is that even now we do have a good manufacturing base and we have some global companies but it has moved up value chain. The jobs we’re talking about are very very well paid, highly skilled.

The old manufacturing/industrial jobs that many are missing have either moved away or been replaced by robotics and obviously regulations related to climate change etc.

Mining was on the decline well before Thatcher. Wilson was correct to talk about the “white heat of technology” that right or wrong was the future and you either embrace adapt etc or die.

But again back to Trump… his policies will make no to no difference in a positive way but will cause higher prices, slower growth and global retaliatory action which just means everyone loses.

If people have some good ideas to boost manufacturing I’d like to hear it.

One example could be to massively increase the amount of engineers. But that doesn’t necessarily help the “deprived communities” the ones that suffered with the changing economic landscape.

Can I ask what industry you work in?