PPM for electric vehicles?

[Smurph]

You asked me if billionaires contribute to the welfare state.

Fund

 

[Ringwood]

Fund

Which comes from the state !

<please do not reply >

 

[Smurph]

Which comes from the state !

<please do not reply >

So you think the billionaires in this country fund the welfare state and not your average Joe working all the hours under the sun just to make ends meet.

 

[Ringwood]

So you think the billionaires in this country fund the welfare state and not your average Joe working all the hours under the sun just to make ends meet.

Not what I said Smurph! .. we all contribute to the welfare of all UK citizens whether it's your Tescos, Civil Servants and average Joe. There is however areas of society that avoid tax whether it's like historically Shell or the shops who are not VAT registered or appear on companies house. It's a mess across the board which needs sorting.

 

[Smurph]

Not what I said Smurph! .. we all contribute to the welfare of all UK citizens whether it's your Tescos, Civil Servants and average Joe. There is however areas of society that avoid tax whether it's like historically Shell or the shops who are not VAT registered or appear on companies house. It's a mess across the board which needs sorting.

Totally agree.

And those are who the government should be going after, not the likes of you and me.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

You said in response to Ringwood saying the rich would leave and go to places like Dubai:

‘Let them leave, they won’t…’

I pointed out four examples I personally know where I live where exactly that has happened.

You then say that means I am out of touch.

it’s nonsensical.

I didn’t say it was right that they did so, in fact, I said the opposite. You just don’t want to believe it.

Like it or loathe it, the top 10% of earners in this country pay around 60% of the total income tax take. If just 1% of those go abroad to save tax, that’s a massive shortfall that needs to be made up elsewhere.

The four that I know of, 3 are not British anyway. 2 are Americans, 1 is Italian. Their wives and kids remain here as the kids go to school here. It’s just the income bit that is taken off shore which means the income tax (and NI) is as well.

An exit tax would help (similar to that which exists in the US - if you remain a citizen you are taxed on worldwide income, if you relinquish citizenship, you pay an exit tax), but that would only work on 1 of the 4 as the others aren’t British.

There is a difference between what seems fair and what works in practice. And ignoring that makes you out of touch with reality, not me.

The correct people to have a go at are those that have caused the huge wealth inequality in the first place, that led to a small percentage of people contributing the most tax. That’s not this government, but started with Thatcher and was blown up by 14 years of the last Tory government.

Any solution though that just states ‘tax the rich’ will lead to things getting worse. These things need to be done in a way that actually increases tax take. Increase taxation on the wealthy, yes, but not in a way that reduces the tax taken.

The actual way out of this hole we are in is to increase the total wealth of the country - economic growth - that increases the amount taken without shooting ourselves in the foot. Economic growth will never happen if the people we need to come here and invest are put off by taxes. They will just go somewhere else. We also need to increase productivity of those that are here. So sensible taxation has to go hand in hand with welfare reform. Too many people are economically inactive. An aging population, 1 million young people who do nothing, and complete lack of incentive for people to work when many will lose out financially by doing so as they get more in benefits than they would if they worked.

It’s complicated and I don’t envy Reeves at all even though I think she’s been really poor so far.

 

[JackSomething]

You said in response to Ringwood saying the rich would leave and go to places like Dubai:

‘Let them leave, they won’t…’

I pointed out four examples I personally know where I live where exactly that has happened.

You then say that means I am out of touch.

it’s nonsensical.

I didn’t say it was right that they did so, in fact, I said the opposite. You just don’t want to believe it.

Like it or loathe it, the top 10% of earners in this country pay around 60% of the total income tax take. If just 1% of those go abroad to save tax, that’s a massive shortfall that needs to be made up elsewhere.

The four that I know of, 3 are not British anyway. 2 are Americans, 1 is Italian. Their wives and kids remain here as the kids go to school here. It’s just the income bit that is taken off shore which means the income tax (and NI) is as well.

An exit tax would help (similar to that which exists in the US - if you remain a citizen you are taxed on worldwide income, if you relinquish citizenship, you pay an exit tax), but that would only work on 1 of the 4 as the others aren’t British.

There is a difference between what seems fair and what works in practice. And ignoring that makes you out of touch with reality, not me.

The correct people to have a go at are those that have caused the huge wealth inequality in the first place, that led to a small percentage of people contributing the most tax. That’s not this government, but started with Thatcher and was blown up by 14 years of the last Tory government.

Any solution though that just states ‘tax the rich’ will lead to things getting worse. These things need to be done in a way that actually increases tax take. Increase taxation on the wealthy, yes, but not in a way that reduces the tax taken.

The actual way out of this hole we are in is to increase the total wealth of the country - economic growth - that increases the amount taken without shooting ourselves in the foot. Economic growth will never happen if the people we need to come here and invest are put off by taxes. They will just go somewhere else. We also need to increase productivity of those that are here. So sensible taxation has to go hand in hand with welfare reform. Too many people are economically inactive. An aging population, 1 million young people who do nothing, and complete lack of incentive for people to work when many will lose out financially by doing so as they get more in benefits than they would if they worked.

It’s complicated and I don’t envy Reeves at all even though I think she’s been really poor so far.

It seems to me that the solution to almost all the problems involves the pain of having to put a lot more money into it initially. Take welfare/benefits for example. If you want to get more people working, you have to invest money in quality support systems, properly investigate those who may be fiddling the system, link with employers to find opportunities for people, etc.

Short term pain for long gain is something any government avoids like the plague as they know they'll almost certainly be out of power before positive results are seen. If a party campaigned on the promise that everyone will pay more in the short term to grow the economy and make life better for everyone in the long term, we all know they'd get obliterated by a party like Reform who'll promise quick and easy fixes while actually making things worse for everyone except themselves and their wealthy mates.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

It seems to me that the solution to almost all the problems involves the pain of having to put a lot more money into it initially. Take welfare/benefits for example. If you want to get more people working, you have to invest money in quality support systems, properly investigate those who may be fiddling the system, link with employers to find opportunities for people, etc.

Short term pain for long gain is something any government avoids like the plague as they know they'll almost certainly be out of power before positive results are seen. If a party campaigned on the promise that everyone will pay more in the short term to grow the economy and make life better for everyone in the long term, we all know they'd get obliterated by a party like Reform who'll promise quick and easy fixes while actually making things worse for everyone except themselves and their wealthy mates.

Completely agree.

One of the reasons I would be in favour of PR which would inevitably lead to permanent coalition government is that it would lead to longer term thinking rather than the wild swinging about we get at the moment.

We also just have crap politicians these days.

I watched Ken Clarke on Question Time last week and love him or loathe him, he was head and shoulders above the others in terms of just being a ‘proper’ grown up politician. Not looking to score points.

 

[monmouth]

Completely agree.

One of the reasons I would be in favour of PR which would inevitably lead to permanent coalition government is that it would lead to longer term thinking rather than the wild swinging about we get at the moment.

We also just have crap politicians these days.

I watched Ken Clarke on Question Time last week and love him or loathe him, he was head and shoulders above the others in terms of just being a ‘proper’ grown up politician. Not looking to score points.

I never thought I'd be nostalgic for Patten, Williams, Clarke, Major, Jenkins, Wilson, Healey, Benn, Callaghan, Smith; even Ashdown, Brown, and Kennedy. Flawed, yes, but so much better than the mix of venal and incompetent that now infects the stage. I believe there are still decent people around, not least Reeves and Starmer, but political quality, intellect and weight...not much of that around.

"We" handed the keys of the kingdom to corporates, bankers, chancers and billionaires by bale outs, brexshit, and Covid with massive transfers of Government wealth with no conditions. Now, shock horror, the Government is at the mercy of all sorts of vested interests and the whims of the bond markets. I think Clarke said recently, they haven't got many cards, and they are playing them badly.

 

[Pegojack]

Nobody's mentioning the elephant in the room.

BREXIT!

Has caused and continues to cause MASSIVE self inflicted damage to the UK economy, and most politicians are scared to mention it.

 

[Smurph]

You said in response to Ringwood saying the rich would leave and go to places like Dubai:

‘Let them leave, they won’t…’

I pointed out four examples I personally know where I live where exactly that has happened.

You then say that means I am out of touch.

it’s nonsensical.

I didn’t say it was right that they did so, in fact, I said the opposite. You just don’t want to believe it.

Like it or loathe it, the top 10% of earners in this country pay around 60% of the total income tax take. If just 1% of those go abroad to save tax, that’s a massive shortfall that needs to be made up elsewhere.

The four that I know of, 3 are not British anyway. 2 are Americans, 1 is Italian. Their wives and kids remain here as the kids go to school here. It’s just the income bit that is taken off shore which means the income tax (and NI) is as well.

An exit tax would help (similar to that which exists in the US - if you remain a citizen you are taxed on worldwide income, if you relinquish citizenship, you pay an exit tax), but that would only work on 1 of the 4 as the others aren’t British.

There is a difference between what seems fair and what works in practice. And ignoring that makes you out of touch with reality, not me.

The correct people to have a go at are those that have caused the huge wealth inequality in the first place, that led to a small percentage of people contributing the most tax. That’s not this government, but started with Thatcher and was blown up by 14 years of the last Tory government.

Any solution though that just states ‘tax the rich’ will lead to things getting worse. These things need to be done in a way that actually increases tax take. Increase taxation on the wealthy, yes, but not in a way that reduces the tax taken.

The actual way out of this hole we are in is to increase the total wealth of the country - economic growth - that increases the amount taken without shooting ourselves in the foot. Economic growth will never happen if the people we need to come here and invest are put off by taxes. They will just go somewhere else. We also need to increase productivity of those that are here. So sensible taxation has to go hand in hand with welfare reform. Too many people are economically inactive. An aging population, 1 million young people who do nothing, and complete lack of incentive for people to work when many will lose out financially by doing so as they get more in benefits than they would if they worked.

It’s complicated and I don’t envy Reeves at all even though I think she’s been really poor so far.

I'm talking about billionaires and big corporations and have done from the very beginning.

I couldn't care what your neighbors from the leafy London suburb in which they and you reside.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

I'm talking about billionaires and big corporations and have done from the very beginning.

I couldn't care what your neighbors from the leafy London suburb in which they and you reside.

The billionaires will go.

No one that lives near me is anything approaching a billionaire. Or even a multi millionaire. And they’re leaving.

And you should care, because if they go, either our taxes will go up or services will be cut.

Petulance won’t balance the books.

 

[Smurph]

The billionaires will go.

No one that lives near me is anything approaching a billionaire. Or even a multi millionaire. And they’re leaving.

And you should care, because if they go, either our taxes will go up or services will be cut.

Petulance won’t balance the books.

Didn’t say you did, there you go twisting things. I’ve noticed you like to have subtle digs toward people in your replies. Do you think you’re better than some of us?

Lisa the accountant from London thinks the plebs should stop being petulant and pay more tax.

Like I said previously, you’re a little out of touch with the real world.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Didn’t say you did, there you go twisting things. I’ve noticed you like to have subtle digs toward people in your replies. Do you think you’re better than some of us?

Lisa the accountant from London thinks the plebs should stop being petulant and pay more tax.

Like I said previously, you’re a little out of touch with the real world.

I have absolutely no idea why you’re being so bloody unpleasant to be honest.

You’re coming across like a complete knob and I’m surprised.

I won’t engage with you any longer.

Just keep stamping your feet like a toddler on your own.

 

[Smurph]

I have absolutely no idea why you’re being so bloody unpleasant to be honest.

You’re coming across like a complete knob and I’m surprised.

I won’t engage with you any longer.

Just keep stamping your feet like a toddler on your own.

That’s quite funny.