Summer Transfer Window

[Londonlisa2001]

Azeem Abdullah?

Can’t think he’ll have moved the dial much. I think we sold Nathan Wood last July as well?

We didn’t sell much that’s for sure.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

£6.5m+ for Hazza Darling? Football deserves to die.

Innit.

Am I the only one who won’t be bothered either way for longer than 5 minutes?

The figures I’ve seen bandied about seem to me to be absolutely ridiculous. If we can’t find a better centre half for the amounts being spoken about we are incompetent.

We bought him from MK Dons and he’s been good for us, sometimes very good. but not season changing. And for north of £20k a week plus plus plus I’d expect season changing.

Anyway, we’ve lost better than him over the years. Which is why the clubs being spoken about as alternatives are not PL teams.
The bit that is irritating is us allowing contracts to finish and not getting any return. That’s just amateur.

If he signs great, if not move on. It’s tedious that this is still going on.

 

[bakajack]

Innit.

Am I the only one who won’t be bothered either way for longer than 5 minutes?

The figures I’ve seen bandied about seem to me to be absolutely ridiculous. If we can’t find a better centre half for the amounts being spoken about we are incompetent.

We bought him from MK Dons and he’s been good for us, sometimes very good. but not season changing. And for north of £20k a week plus plus plus I’d expect season changing.

Anyway, we’ve lost better than him over the years. Which is why the clubs being spoken about as alternatives are not PL teams.
The bit that is irritating is us allowing contracts to finish and not getting any return. That’s just amateur.

If he signs great, if not move on. It’s tedious that this is still going on.

In fairness Lisa under Sheehan and without the insane tactics that Williams was employing we kept clean sheets in well over half the games that he appeared for the club in and he also contributed a couple of goals at the other end of the pitch too.

If next season he could carry that kind of form over a whole year then that would put the club in a very strong position in terms of trying to get playoffs/promotion. Successful seasons are built on a backbone of clean sheets after all, and if he does have a strong season but we fail to get promoted at least having him on a 3 or 4 year contract would mean we could demand a strong fee for him.

1.25m in wages over a season to be able to get 8-10m as a transfer fee would make it then an extremely good investment.

I do agree about the amateur aspect of letting contracts run down, but so far keeping cautious optimism in check Montague and co seem to be switched on in ways that Coleman and the old owners simply were not.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

The figures I’ve seen bandied about seem to me to be absolutely ridiculous. If we can’t find a better centre half for the amounts being spoken about we are incompetent.

We bought him from MK Dons and he’s been good for us, sometimes very good. but not season changing. And for north of £20k a week plus plus plus I’d expect season changing.

And that is pretty much the whole saga in a nutshell.

 

[magicdaps10]

I still think Harry's staying.

Nothing to do with Harry's but...

Wondering if the club is able to delay announcing any agreed deals until after June for PSR reasons.

Inclined to think if they have deals agreed they will still announce them just not submit formal paperwork until July 1st.

Thoughts anyone?

I don't see what the big thing is with the 1st July!?

Deals can be sorted, contracts signed with agreements that payments or the first payment are not made until a later date(past July 1st for instance).

In regards to Darling, any contract he signs won't kick in until July 1st and that applies to signing a new contract with us.

 

[Swans Jack]

I'm sure it was said somewhere that our pre season training begins mid June or so
Sheehan won't want players joining late just because of PSR shenanigans if it can be helped

Admittedly the first week or two is just basic tests to get data on physical condition but still

From memory he wants them back in for July 1st for assessment on fitness. For few days.

 

[Swans Jack]

I still think Harry's staying.

Nothing to do with Harry's but...

Wondering if the club is able to delay announcing any agreed deals until after June for PSR reasons.

Inclined to think if they have deals agreed they will still announce them just not submit formal paperwork until July 1st.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Londonlisa2001]

In fairness Lisa under Sheehan and without the insane tactics that Williams was employing we kept clean sheets in well over half the games that he appeared for the club in and he also contributed a couple of goals at the other end of the pitch too.

If next season he could carry that kind of form over a whole year then that would put the club in a very strong position in terms of trying to get playoffs/promotion. Successful seasons are built on a backbone of clean sheets after all, and if he does have a strong season but we fail to get promoted at least having him on a 3 or 4 year contract would mean we could demand a strong fee for him.

1.25m in wages over a season to be able to get 8-10m as a transfer fee would make it then an extremely good investment.

I do agree about the amateur aspect of letting contracts run down, but so far keeping cautious optimism in check Montague and co seem to be switched on in ways that Coleman and the old owners simply were not.

Yes, I agree that he did well. My point is whether he is season changing compared to others we could bring in for the same outlay.

I understand the point re possible return, but the calculation has to include his substantial signing fee and there is no guarantee we would ever get anything like £10m for him. We may do, but we only had about £3m for Wood and he went to the premier league and was an England under 21 international (I think).

If, say, it’s £5m signing fee plus £1.25m a season, we’d need to sell him for £6.5m to break even. He doesn’t seem to be attracting interest from the premier league which is what we’d need to get substantially more. And that’s with him being out of contract.

I’m not saying don’t do it, I think he’s a good player, sometimes very good, I’m just saying I won’t lose sleep if he decides to go elsewhere. Albeit the club should have not allowed it to get to this.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

View attachment 5751

I don’t understand what’s being said in that post to be honest.

If we sign a player for 48 months and it’s the middle of June, we’d would have 2 weeks of 48 months (so 1/96th) impact in this years FFP calculation. And 2 weeks’ less impact in 48 months time.
It doesn’t add an extra year to make any payments. That’s done over an agreed timescale which is part of transfer negotiations.

The reason for matching contracts to our yea4 end (and PSR calculations) is it’s a tiny bit more convenient. You don’t need to do an assessment of asset impairment a few weeks after signing them. But given we’d have just agreed a value, that’s would take two seconds.

PSR rules are far more straightforward in many ways than are made outl

The club makes and profit or loss every year which gets reported in its annual financial statements. Some items are then stripped out for PSR purposes, such as academy costs, women’s team costs, community spending costs and so on. The profit or loss you end up with is allowed to be a certain figure for FFP rules. It’s roughly £40m over three years. And it’s a rolling calculation, so you always look back three years at any given time. So this year is year three of a calculation, year two of a calculation and year one of a calculation.

A player is bought for an amount (transfer fee, signing on fee). That is depreciated over the length of the contract is equal amounts (it’s called amortisation because a player is an intangible asset for accounting purposes rather than a tangible asset). So if a contract is 4 years the cost is amortised over four years (48 months). If * years, 60 months. If 3 years, 36 months. Etc.

There isn’t a cliff edge whereby signing someone two days before a date or two days after makes any difference other than fractional, it’s pro rated.

Now if you are absolutely at the limit, you may choose to delay. But unless we are at that limit it doesn’t matter.

The only other thing worth considering is that owners putting in equity doesn’t increase your profits. So you can’t get round it that way. Commercial income being increased, does increase your profit. And give you more money for players,

We seem to be increasing our available pot by giving longer contracts (which is better for PSR as it spreads the cost over more time). Not necessarily the best thing commercially as it ties us to paying a player for a longer period but it depends how it goes with that player.

 

[Ringwood]

Santos apart it has gone quiet on the rumour front for a CB considering Delcroix returning and Darlings's situation

 

[bakajack]

Yes, I agree that he did well. My point is whether he is season changing compared to others we could bring in for the same outlay.

I understand the point re possible return, but the calculation has to include his substantial signing fee and there is no guarantee we would ever get anything like £10m for him. We may do, but we only had about £3m for Wood and he went to the premier league and was an England under 21 international (I think).

If, say, it’s £5m signing fee plus £1.25m a season, we’d need to sell him for £6.5m to break even. He doesn’t seem to be attracting interest from the premier league which is what we’d need to get substantially more. And that’s with him being out of contract.

I’m not saying don’t do it, I think he’s a good player, sometimes very good, I’m just saying I won’t lose sleep if he decides to go elsewhere. Albeit the club should have not allowed it to get to this.

Signing fees (for both out of contract players and new contracts for existing ones) are typically spread over the length of the contract and if a player leaves early (for example we sold Darling next summer after he signs a new deal) then he would forfeit the remaining instalments of his signing fee - these are usually the "loyalty payments" that get referred to so the reality is that we wouldn't need anything near 6.5m to break even if we sold him next summer.

In the example you made and if we assume its a 4 year contract typically that would mean he would see a payment of 1.25m this summer, if we sold him before the end of the 26/27 window then he would give up the remaining 3.75m

Of course from his perspective he would get a new signing on bonus from his new club so he wouldn't really lose out unless he ended up taking a pay cut

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Signing fees (for both out of contract players and new contracts for existing ones) are typically spread over the length of the contract and if a player leaves early (for example we sold Darling next summer after he signs a new deal) then he would forfeit the remaining instalments of his signing fee - these are usually the "loyalty payments" that get referred to so the reality is that we wouldn't need anything near 6.5m to break even if we sold him next summer.

In the example you made and if we assume its a 4 year contract typically that would mean he would see a payment of 1.25m this summer, if we sold him before the end of the 26/27 window then he would give up the remaining 3.75m

Of course from his perspective he would get a new signing on bonus from his new club so he wouldn't really lose out unless he ended up taking a pay cut

They only forfeit the remainder if they put in a transfer request (usually - they can be whatever is agreed). I agree it’s (almost) always spread.

So if we sold him and he hadn’t put in a transfer request we’d have to pay it up.

It’s happened a whole load of times over the years. It’s obviously ridiculous but there we go.

 

[Martyn - Derwydd]

Well. Thought the signing on fee I was hearing was 3/4 to 1m which changes the math. I dont see anyway he or anyone else similar is going to get 5m signing on fee

 

[Magic_Michu]

My thoughts are that to bring in a centre back anywhere near Darling’s quality would cost £2 million + and then wages on top.

 

[Martyn - Derwydd]

I don’t understand what’s being said in that post to be honest.

If we sign a player for 48 months and it’s the middle of June, we’d would have 2 weeks of 48 months (so 1/96th) impact in this years FFP calculation. And 2 weeks’ less impact in 48 months time.
It doesn’t add an extra year to make any payments. That’s done over an agreed timescale which is part of transfer negotiations.

The reason for matching contracts to our yea4 end (and PSR calculations) is it’s a tiny bit more convenient. You don’t need to do an assessment of asset impairment a few weeks after signing them. But given we’d have just agreed a value, that’s would take two seconds.

PSR rules are far more straightforward in many ways than are made outl

The club makes and profit or loss every year which gets reported in its annual financial statements. Some items are then stripped out for PSR purposes, such as academy costs, women’s team costs, community spending costs and so on. The profit or loss you end up with is allowed to be a certain figure for FFP rules. It’s roughly £40m over three years. And it’s a rolling calculation, so you always look back three years at any given time. So this year is year three of a calculation, year two of a calculation and year one of a calculation.

A player is bought for an amount (transfer fee, signing on fee). That is depreciated over the length of the contract is equal amounts (it’s called amortisation because a player is an intangible asset for accounting purposes rather than a tangible asset). So if a contract is 4 years the cost is amortised over four years (48 months). If * years, 60 months. If 3 years, 36 months. Etc.

There isn’t a cliff edge whereby signing someone two days before a date or two days after makes any difference other than fractional, it’s pro rated.

Now if you are absolutely at the limit, you may choose to delay. But unless we are at that limit it doesn’t matter.

The only other thing worth considering is that owners putting in equity doesn’t increase your profits. So you can’t get round it that way. Commercial income being increased, does increase your profit. And give you more money for players,

We seem to be increasing our available pot by giving longer contracts (which is better for PSR as it spreads the cost over more time). Not necessarily the best thing commercially as it ties us to paying a player for a longer period but it depends how it goes with that player.

Agree with everything but will note that not every company/business type records depreciation on a monthly basis. If we, and soccer clubs in general choose the one time a year entry to the income statement for recording depreciation then July 1st may have some merit