What are we really expecting from Matos....

[Andrew - North Hill]

We spent alot of money in the summer to turn an average mid table squad into an average mid table squad

This made me chuckle because that is exactly what happened, in a nutshell

 

[Treehuggerjack]

Every season for several years now we’ve been supposedly ‘finding our identity’.

12th will not be a hell of an achievement. It will be for Matos from where he started but won’t be for the club.
In fact, I’d suggest that with the amount we spent it will be bloody awful.

He seems to have injected energy and desire. Sadly, those that claimed (and still believe in some cases) that our players were top 6 or promotion quality if not for the manager will soon be clamouring for yet another change, else they’ll have to admit that just perhaps, these are not top 6 players.

I’m happy with how we’ve done in the past few games but, as I’ve said before, I have a lingering qualm in our inability to do anything against a top half team. Wrexham are now that but that was a bit of a one off.

Lots of energy today, sadly lacking in quality. It says it all really when our top player this year has been, without a shadow of a doubt, our goalkeeper, who is, I’d suggest, up there as one the top in this division, and yet we’re still 16th.

No creativity again.

I have a feeling we’ll finish 10th - no particular reason for that other than I think the energy part of it will see us do very well at home. But we are genuinely lacking quality again this year.

Agree with this but do feel that we looked tired in the first half. As expected with all the games we’ve played.

I’m hoping that Matos and his coaching staff once he’s sorted out the basics of defending and pressing. He can then add to our attacking intent. Even with the players we have.

I’m with you though and 10th is a realistic finish for this year.

 

[Swans Jack]

This made me chuckle because that is exactly what happened, in a nutshell

Genuine question. You have been consistent with saying we have a weak squad and you can stand stronger in that opinion than anyone at moment. But at what point would you consider this squad to be on par to your expectations? That's not a dig. I think you'll be waiting a longtime until you will be fully happy with the squad as a whole. We have players who may not be up to par with where we are at or where we want to go, but not every player. For every Ronald there is a Galbraith, for every Fulton there is a Stamenic etc. The squad is not as dud as you and others keep saying.

 

[cmajack]

I’ll admit to being one of the people who thought the attacking output would improve if we changed manager and I still think that has been the case but not as much as I initially thought. I was hoping we’d see a bit better from some of our wide players than we have in terms of end product. There are clearly not enough goals and assists in us at the moment.

Our recruitment needs to improve if we want to get anywhere near the top 6 I think. I like the potential that we brought in this summer and some will develop into good players and assets but we didn’t bring in enough players for the here and now and I think top 6 was way wide of the mark for this season.

The owners in their Christmas statement said they were disappointed at our position and the aim for the season was to improve on last seasons finish, I think they may have their eyes opened a little bit as to that. It’s going to take multiple seasons/windows to get us competing for top 6 places.

Why does it have to take multiple seasons/windows then? Sunderland finished 16th in the championship in 23/24 season, so obviously not a great squad to be that low in the table. They got promoted the following season and are now doing excellent in the Premier league. It doesn't have to take an eternity if you have the right people in place.

 

[Cooperman]

Why does it have to take multiple seasons/windows then? Sunderland finished 16th in the championship in 23/24 season, so obviously not a great squad to be that low in the table. They got promoted the following season and are now doing excellent in the Premier league. It doesn't have to take an eternity if you have the right people in place.

For every ‘right’ coach there are ten who turn out to be duffers. The same applies to transfers. There are no guarantees with any of this, especially when it comes to making the right choices. You won’t find many Sunderland fans who fawned over Régis Le Bris when he was first appointed.

 

[Dr. Winston]

Over the festive period we've picked up nine points from five games. Extrapolated over the season that would give us a final points total somewhere in the low 80's. Over Matos' reign entirely it's fifteen points from nine games, which puts us in the mid 70's. Both would see us squarely in the mix for a playoff spot, and potentially more.

Of course, we have to maintain that. If you're a glass half empty sort of person you might assume that the players we have won't be that much better next season, unlike say, a Slovenian striker who shall remain nameless. Or we can see how things go when the games aren't coming at a clip of two per week and he actually has a chance to do some proper training ground work with the coaches who only recently arrived.

 

[PenlanJack]

Here it is.. said it years ago.. the rebuild thread, we'll be rebuilding for years and years and a thread like this will pop up..like clockwork.. Matos will be backed in the summer, he'll get dismissed.. and then the rebuild line will get trotted out.. this has been a theme for 8 years, and it's the same.. doing things over and over and expecting different results.. we've spent the most since the PL.. yet you're all content on solidifying our place in the championship.. Sheehan gone, Montague gone.. that's the boards excuse.. we haven't got a trust anymore and we all just sit here accepting our plight.. but I'm glad the 5000 or so fans who don't turn up, agree with me, simply not good enough.. you're all mugs on here

 

[cmajack]

For every ‘right’ coach there are ten who turn out to be duffers. The same applies to transfers. There are no guarantees with any of this, especially when it comes to making the right choices. You won’t find many Sunderland fans who fawned over Régis Le Bris when he was first appointed.

Oh i agree with you , but fans like myself, 70 years of age, can't afford to wait years for us to build an ideal squad. We need it to happen NOW or preferably yesterday so we can have savour the good times again

 

[Swans Jack]

Over the festive period we've picked up nine points from five games. Extrapolated over the season that would give us a final points total somewhere in the low 80's. Over Matos' reign entirely it's fifteen points from nine games, which puts us in the mid 70's. Both would see us squarely in the mix for a playoff spot, and potentially more.

Of course, we have to maintain that. If you're a glass half empty sort of person you might assume that the players we have won't be that much better next season, like say, a Slovenian striker who shall remain nameless. Or we can see how things go when the games aren't coming at a clip of two per week and he actually has a chance to do some proper training ground work with the coaches who only recently arrived.

100%. I find it hilarious that we have had a very positive month yet certain posters on here can't wait to remind us all of there thoughts about the Squad once we lose. Don't get me wrong I'm the first to point out our players flaws when we go on a bad run and we could have a few sticky moments, but it's clear anyone watching we are trying to improve. We may not have all the players that can perform at the level that Matos wants but it's a positive sign. Did I say the same thing about Sheehan? Sure. But what's the option always being negative about managers and appointments and waiting for them to trip up or having hope. I know what I would prefer.

 

[Cooperman]

Here it is.. said it years ago.. the rebuild thread, we'll be rebuilding for years and years and a thread like this will pop up..like clockwork.. Matos will be backed in the summer, he'll get dismissed.. and then the rebuild line will get trotted out.. this has been a theme for 8 years, and it's the same.. doing things over and over and expecting different results.. we've spent the most since the PL.. yet you're all content on solidifying our place in the championship.. Sheehan gone, Montague gone.. that's the boards excuse.. we haven't got a trust anymore and we all just sit here accepting our plight.. but I'm glad the 5000 or so fans who don't turn up, agree with me, simply not good enough.. you're all mugs on here

You’ve just described the cycle that most clubs go through every season or two. Not many clubs stand still with their playing staff and you only have to look at the list of sackings to see how many Sheehan’s are out there.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

Genuine question. You have been consistent with saying we have a weak squad and you can stand stronger in that opinion than anyone at moment. But at what point would you consider this squad to be on par to your expectations? That's not a dig. I think you'll be waiting a longtime until you will be fully happy with the squad as a whole. We have players who may not be up to par with where we are at or where we want to go, but not every player. For every Ronald there is a Galbraith, for every Fulton there is a Stamenic etc. The squad is not as dud as you and others keep saying.

I don't think I'm stronger or more consistent in that opinion than others - Lisa and ECB spring immediately to mind, possibly Phil as well, FOAJP I seem to recall as quite moderate too, and maybe one or two others (apologies if I've misrepresented anyone there).

Also, didn't the poll at the start of the season suggest most people saw us mid table?

Anyway, to answer your question. My reference point will always be the 2011 promotion side. In midfield, we had enough options to be able to rotate and not really see much of a dip in quality. You could perm any three from Dobbie, Gower, Britton, Pratley, Allen and Orlandi and you'd do ok. Up front we had Borini and Beattie to choose from, both useful, and Dobbie could play 9 too. At the back, we had Tatey who could play anywhere across the back 4, Serran was also quite reliable when called upon. We had quite a versatile squad with a number of players who could play 2 or 3 positions competently.

Suffice to say, I don't think the current squad is anywhere near that level of quality. But we might get there, if we can hold on to our best players and add some more. Only time will tell.

 

[Swans Jack]

You’ve just described the cycle that most clubs go through every season or two. Not many clubs stand still with their playing staff and you only have to look at the list of sackings to see how many Sheehan’s are out there.

We all want stability. And as you said that's something that most clubs don't have. Not sure what people want. Anyways agree with your post

 

[Dr. Winston]

You’ve just described the cycle that most clubs go through every season or two. Not many clubs stand still with their playing staff and you only have to look at the list of sackings to see how many Sheehan’s are out there.

Yep.

Part of what worked for us the first time around was the continuity. From Flynn right through to Rodgers there was a certain idea of how we wanted to go about things and whilst players came and went, three of our starting lineup at Wembley in the Playoff final had been here since League Two. Several others had joined in League One. The team grew up together. Lately we've just chopped and changed managers, players and philosophies.

 

[FearOfAJackPlanet]

My expectations are that he build a team that is greater than the sum of its parts, where players complement each other and are all singing from the same hymn sheet out there.

We know what that looks like and we haven't been there for a while. It's key to getting the fans on board as well - there's a difference between hoping for the best from a collection of individuals and seeing your team play to their strengths like a well-oiled machine. I want that back, and I have high hopes right now that VM can do it - ideally we have the rest of this season relatively untroubled, so we can plan and develop with a view to having a good go next year, hopefully without too much squad turnover.

 

[Swans Jack]

I don't think I'm stronger or more consistent in that opinion than others - Lisa and ECB spring immediately to mind, possibly Phil as well, FOAJP I seem to recall as quite moderate too, and maybe one or two others (apologies if I've misrepresented anyone there).

Also, didn't the poll at the start of the season suggest most people saw us mid table?

Anyway, to answer your question. My reference point will always be the 2011 promotion side. In midfield, we had enough options to be able to rotate and not really see much of a dip in quality. You could perm any three from Dobbie, Gower, Britton, Pratley, Allen and Orlandi and you'd do ok. Up front we had Borini and Beattie to choose from, both useful, and Dobbie could play 9 too. At the back, we had Tatey who could play anywhere across the back 4, Serran was also quite reliable when called upon. We had quite a versatile squad with a number of players who could play 2 or 3 positions competently.

Suffice to say, I don't think the current squad is anywhere near that level of quality. But we might get there, if we can hold on to our best players and add some more. Only time will tell.

And that's what we need to do.

'' if we can hold on to our best players and add some more. Only time will tell.''