An expensive mistake

[Proper Jack]

I think most people would agree that, derbies and one or two other notable results aside, Martin didn't pull up any trees here.

But comparing his level of failure to that of Duff is just absolutely bonkers. It's not even in the same postcode. Hell, not even in the same galaxy.

Duff had to be removed as a matter of urgency, not just because of results but because of performances and a general disharmony throughout the dressing room. It was never at that level with Martin, nowhere near. You're trying to rewrite history.

Oh dear.

For the proper fan, Martin’s level of failure was catastrophic- he instantly ripped up and threw away our winning edge(s) - league leading stoic defence and the winning never say die balls out application, til the end.

He immediately made us naive, porous and calamitous in defence. And soft as sh*t, in seeing games out or going for a win. Pathetic, in so many ways.

He lost the proper fans early doors, no doubt. If it wasn’t for the meek mid Winter, he woulda been marched off the premises yonks ago.

Back on topic - not as expensive a mistake had we not twisted. And made the right commercial decision to ditch Duff, despite doing his level best to cleanse the Martin Mess. Well done to our Owners for acting promptly and decisively.

 

[Deleted member 1454]

Oh dear.

For the proper fan, Martin’s level of failure was catastrophic- he instantly ripped up and threw away our winning edge(s) - league leading stoic defence and the winning never say die balls out application, til the end.

He immediately made us naive, porous and calamitous in defence. And soft as sh*t, in seeing games out or going for a win. Pathetic, in so many ways.

He lost the proper fans early doors, no doubt. If it wasn’t for the meek mid Winter, he woulda been marched off the premises yonks ago.

Back on topic - not as expensive a mistake had we not twisted. And made the right commercial decision to ditch Duff, despite doing his level best to cleanse the Martin Mess. Well done to our Owners for acting promptly and decisively.

"Proper" fans, eh?

We all know what you mean by that.

The secret Stoke lovers in our fanbase. Go to Blackpool for their holidays. Roast beef every Sunday. Voted Brexit.

That sort of fan. "Proper" fans.

 

[cadleigh]

I had hoped that the culture wars between Swans supporters could be buried once Martin left. Both sides on the Cooper/Martin debates exagerated the worst of each of those managers and failed to give enough credit for the things they did well. I'm not saying every partisan on both sides was guilty of that, but plenty of us were, myself included.

I thought Duff was an opportunity for a reboot, and I was encouraged that posters like MagicDaps were prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But now it feels like the old fault lines are creeping back in, before the next manager has even been appointed.

For what it's worth, I still to this day don't know what Duff's prefered style of football was. I hope it was what we saw in that four-game spell between Sheffield Wednesday and Plymouth Argyle, when we passed the ball with purpose, attacked with what pace we had in the available players and seemed to enjoy our football once again, and not the ponderous, pass-any-direction-but-forwards, low press game we saw before and after those matches. And I don't know if his failure to push on with that good spell was down to him, the atitude of the players, the quality of the squad and the impact of injuries, or some other factor. Or whether new recruits in the transfer window could have helped him deliver his vision.

Anyway, he's gone so we'll never know. I just hope we can give the next manager more of a chance and not rush to judgment before a ball has been kicked.

 

[Deleted member 1454]

I had hoped that the culture wars between Swans supporters could be buried once Martin left. Both sides on the Cooper/Martin debates exagerated the worst of each of those managers and failed to give enough credit for the things they did well. I'm not saying every partisan on both sides was guilty of that, but plenty of us were, myself included.

I thought Duff was an opportunity for a reboot, and I was encouraged that posters like MagicDaps were prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But now it feels like the old fault lines are creeping back in, before the next manager has even been appointed.

For what it's worth, I still to this day don't know what Duff's prefered style of football was. I hope it was what we saw in that four-game spell between Sheffield Wednesday and Plymouth Argyle, when we passed the ball with purpose, attacked with what pace we had in the available players and seemed to enjoy our football once again, and not the ponderous, pass-any-direction-but-forwards, low press game we saw before and after those matches. And I don't know if his failure to push on with that good spell was down to him, the atitude of the players, the quality of the squad and the impact of injuries, or some other factor. Or whether new recruits in the transfer window could have helped him deliver his vision.

Anyway, he's gone so we'll never know. I just hope we can give the next manager more of a chance and not rush to judgment before a ball has been kicked.

I know you and I are not on the same page very often, but one thing I do know about you (and have a modicum of respect for) is that you have followed the Swans for decades and have contributed to forums such as this for decades too.

Which is why I remain surprised that you cannot/will not see what the difference was between Duff, and those you mention.

It was never about 'rushing to judge', many people were prepared to give him a chance to prove himself. But it's that the red warning signs were there right from the very first day.

Rumblings very early on that players weren't happy in training. Weird and discordant comments in media interviews, or snide digs at his predecessor. And, most importantly, completely disjointed and shapeless displays in pre-season that a number of seasoned followers highlighted at the time.

There was none of that with Potter or Cooper (Martin never got a pre-season so I'll leave him out of it). Players were known to be happy. There was structure to their teams, even if results were mixed in pre-season. They also knew how to manage the media.

If he'd managed to get past the ropey start and he'd gone on to allay all those concerns, fair enough. But it was as bad when he left as when he got there. The truth is he was never on top of his brief since day one.

It was never the witch hunt you've continually made it out to be. People were concerned from the off. And had every right to be.