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Are we doing OK or underachieving?

Are we doing OK or underachieving?

  • Doing OK

    Votes: 13 26.5%
  • Underachieving

    Votes: 36 73.5%

  • Total voters
    49
He could well have one in Widell, either through the middle (10) or out wide, he just chooses not to use him.
Right, I actually edited my post right after to add a paragraph as it seems clear to me it's more a case of Sheehan not wanting to play with someone there than anything else.
 
One thing I'd put into the positive column is that we look a more competent, professional defensive unit these days, although the bar was super low there...

It wasn't that long ago that we were comedically, self-destructively bad at times. We look solid overall and that gives you a base to build on. How far back do we have to go to find the last manager that gave a sh*t about being tight defensively? Not lip service, but actually clearly working at it. I think it does come at the cost of attacking play, but at least it's something to build on and tweak, even if it's not perfect.
 
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One thing I'd put into the positive column is that we look a more competent, professional defensive unit these days, although the bar was super low there...

It wasn't that long ago that we were comedically, self-destructively bad at times. We look solid overall and that gives you a base to build on. How far back do what have to go to find the last manager that gave a sh*t about being tight defensively? Not lip service, but actually clearly working at it. I think it does come at the cost of attacking play, but at least it's something to build on and tweak, even if it's not perfect.
I think Sousa was very defensively minded.
 
How far back do what have to go to find the last manager that gave a sh*t about being tight defensively? Not lip service, but actually clearly working at it. I think it does come at the cost of attacking play, but at least it's something to build on and tweak, even if it's not perfect.

Clearly Cooper. Almost mind numbingly so.
 
One thing I'd put into the positive column is that we look a more competent, professional defensive unit these days, although the bar was super low there...

It wasn't that long ago that we were comedically, self-destructively bad at times. We look solid overall and that gives you a base to build on. How far back do what have to go to find the last manager that gave a sh*t about being tight defensively? Not lip service, but actually clearly working at it. I think it does come at the cost of attacking play, but at least it's something to build on and tweak, even if it's not perfect.
I think this is the primary reason why some are being more patient. They don’t want a Russell Martin type who will try and play football at the expense of goals at the other end.

Personally I don’t see it that way. I don’t see us as particularly defensively solid this season, there has been some poor finishing against us and Vigs has bailed us out a lot. Also, you don’t have to compromise your defence to play attacking football, I feel like I see a lot of “it’s one or the other” but we can have both, it’s not impossible at all.
 
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I think this is the primary reason why some are being more patient. They don’t want a Russell Martin type who will try and play football at the expense of goals at the other end.

Personally I don’t see it that way. I don’t see us as particularly defensively solid this season, there has been some poor finishing against us and Vigs has bailed us out a lot. Also, you don’t have to compromise your defence to play attacking football, I feel like I see a lot of “it’s one or the other” but we can have both, it’s not impossible at all.

I'd say that's a very charitable description of Russel Martin's brand of football, but I don't want to get sucked down that rabbit hole again...

It certainly doesn't have to be one or the other, but often one is more a focus than the other and sometimes it's ok to start with the defence and not the attack, even if that's a harder sell to the supporters; You need patience whatever approach you're taking.

I'm a total outlier on the patience front though. My baseline is at least a whole season in charge, maybe 18 months if inheriting a mess, before you can make any competent assessment of a manager, unless something horrible goes wrong in that time of course. All this talk of managers needing to be binned after weeks or a couple of months is just alien to me. Not saying I'm superior or correct at all, it's just how I am. I've been following what's happening at Man Utd with Amorim with interest as I kinda wanted him to come good to prove to all the 'let's sack and appoint someone else every 3 months' fans that yes, things can be incredibly rough, but you can get through that and get better; you don't have to rip everything up every few months.
 
I'd say that's a very charitable description of Russel Martin's brand of football, but I don't want to get sucked down that rabbit hole again...

It certainly doesn't have to be one or the other, but often one is more a focus than the other and sometimes it's ok to start with the defence and not the attack, even if that's a harder sell to the supporters; You need patience whatever approach you're taking.

I'm a total outlier on the patience front though. My baseline is at least a whole season in charge, maybe 18 months if inheriting a mess, before you can make any competent assessment of a manager, unless something horrible goes wrong in that time of course. All this talk of managers needing to be binned after weeks or a couple of months is just alien to me. Not saying I'm superior or correct at all, it's just how I am. I've been following what's happening at Man Utd with Amorim with interest as I kinda wanted him to come good to prove to all the 'let's sack and appoint someone else every 3 months' fans that yes, things can be incredibly rough, but you can get through that and get better; you don't have to rip everything up every few months.
To be fair, I wasn’t describing Martin in a good or bad way, I was just saying he was more of a footballing manager in the sense that he gets the ball down on the floor and plays it shorter.

I would love to have the patience that you’ve got, I really would but I think the squad we have now is a good one and we’re likely to lose important players next summer. We need improvement soon so we can take advantage.

I would also be all for patience if the performances and underlying numbers were good but they just aren’t. It’s disappointing because it feels like we’ve lost all the optimism from the summer already.
 
I think the Benson signing being a total flop so far is a significant factor in our attacking woes. We REALLY needed an effective alternative to Ronald down the right. I'm content with Tymon, Inoussa and Eom as options on the left, but Key, Ronald and Benson on the right is a major drop in quality in comparison. 5 at the back seems to suit Key, so maybe there's some light at the end of that tunnel, but we still lack quality going forwards on the right. I'd consider cancelling Benson's loan in January and getting someone else in if possible.

The absence of any real intent to attack down the centre of midfield leaves the wide players shouldering more responsibility for creating chances than their output warrants, but if that's the way he wants to play, then we need to level up out wide in January. Maybe even bringing Congreve back from Dundee in addition to making a singing or two. We need to find people who relish taking on defenders, not having to be pushed into it as a last resort against their will...

In addition, whilst we don't appear to have many good options to play as a 10 - and more importantly - the manager doesn't seem to have much of a desire to put anyone there, it should be noted that Franco and Galbraith often get into great positions in the centre on those rare occasions where our wide players get in and attack the opposition box, Franco especially makes great runs into the box when we push the line of play up, it's just not happening enough at present.
I’m not sure what the plan is tbh. We rely on the wide players to make things happen but we have two forwards Vip and Idah who would thrive with a ball to run on to. Inevitable crosses into the box which superior aerial defences find easy to deal with. That’s if the cross is accurate in the first place. They’re always hit or miss. It would be nice to mix it up a bit and have an attacking midfielder making the opposition think. Cue Widell. There’s a player in Eom too but he can’t cross or finish so behind Vip and Idah and just feed on the floor. Puglia vino rosso talking.
 
Sheehan sets the team up like we're a league two side in the cup against a premier or championship side.. tactically an all, like we're a perennial underdog.. it'll get him the sack sooner rather than later
 
Another factor is that I believe we are the ONLY championship team who have failed to score from a set piece this season (barring Idah's penalty).
This can make a huge difference in games that are decided by fine margins. Not sure who is coaching this aspect these days - but we need a rethink!
 
Another factor is that I believe we are the ONLY championship team who have failed to score from a set piece this season (barring Idah's penalty).
This can make a huge difference in games that are decided by fine margins. Not sure who is coaching this aspect these days - but we need a rethink!
The owners need to show some ambition and sign Declan Rice in January. 😉
 
.

Been told there's increasing concern that Sheeezy is ofc, the massive limiting factor.

WE have a richly assembled deep 'n wide squad with oodles of latent talent.



.
Deep and wide squad - tick
Oodles of latent talent ..🤔
Richly assembled - nope

Tbh the team and coaching staff are not that far apart. But give them and Sheean a bit of time yet ffs
 

Preston North End v Swansea City

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