Drama at West Ham.

[waynekerr55]

There can be no doubts about it being the correct call. What’s not mentioned in this thread is the point about inconsistency; this grappling is seen week after week and generally goes without punishment. It’s the inconsistency which needs fixing, and this will aid stamping it out in the first place.

This. The only thing consistent is the inconsistent application of the rules

 

[Tafkaanh]

Got to be honest, I long for the days when we just let the refs get on with it.

It was no worse. But we are gaslit into believing that this is an improvement because it catches perhaps the 1 in 100 serious incidents that a ref might miss. While the many f*ck ups are quickly swept under the carpet once Howard Webb apologises on the Monday.

I'd keep GDS, I'd keep semi automated offsides, but I'd bin the rest of it. Too much is being re-refereed, and it's being done badly and too slowly.

 

[Smurph]

It was no worse. But we are gaslit into believing that this is an improvement because it catches perhaps the 1 in 100 serious incidents that a ref might miss. While the many f*ck ups are quickly swept under the carpet once Howard Webb apologises on the Monday.

I'd keep GDS, I'd keep semi automated offsides, but I'd bin the rest of it. Too much is being re-refereed, and it's being done badly and too slowly.

I'd keep goal line tech and automated off sides, scrap the rest.

I can handle human error upon times, what I can't get my head around is the level of incompetence with the technology available to them.

 

[Cooperman]

Got to be honest, I long for the days when we just let the refs get on with it.

That’s how the Premier League ended up with VAR; too many incorrect calls at vital moments of games with significance.

There is a place for VAR, it’s just not consistently applied. Link this with refereeing inconsistencies and here we are.

 

[MajorR]

I’ve not much interest in the PL tbh, not watched a live game or MOTD for a fair few years. Wouldn’t mind seeing Spurs go down though just to see one of the “big boys” get brought back down to earth. New ground for Swans fans to visit next season!

 

[Tafkaanh]

what I can't get my head around is the level of incompetence with the technology available to them.

It's partly that some of them are just bad at their jobs full stop. But it's also to do with the level of subjectivity they're asked to police. "Clear and obvious error" is a meaningless, load of old bollocks phrase, it can mean anything to anyone on any given day. It is nigh on impossible for any of them to even hope to coherently and consistently manage in the face of such nonsense. In that sense, I have a tiny shred of sympathy for them. (But not much...)

 

[Tafkaanh]

That’s how the Premier League ended up with VAR; too many incorrect calls at vital moments of games with significance

Were there though?

What title was ever decided by a genuine on-field clanger in recent memory?

The only one I can think of is when Howard Webb made up a penalty to give to Manchester United in 2009 when they were 2 down at home to Spurs at half time. But even then, United ended up winning 5-2. And the title by several points. So it probably didn't really make that much difference.

VAR was created to solve problems that weren't really there. As far as I can see, the only ones to really benefit are the TV companies, who stand a better chance of getting a few talking points to discuss during boring 0-0s.

 

[Smurph]

That’s how the Premier League ended up with VAR; too many incorrect calls at vital moments of games with significance.

There is a place for VAR, it’s just not consistently applied. Link this with refereeing inconsistencies and here we are.

That's very true.

Week in week out it's the same mistakes season after season, though.

At some point either the clubs or the Premier League need to step in and ask when things are going to improve.

 

[Smurph]

It's partly that some of them are just bad at their jobs full stop. But it's also to do with the level of subjectivity they're asked to police. "Clear and obvious error" is a meaningless, load of old bollocks phrase, it can mean anything to anyone on any given day. It is nigh on impossible for any of them to even hope to coherently and consistently manage in the face of such nonsense. In that sense, I have a tiny shred of sympathy for them. (But not much...)

I always get the impression they'll do whatever they can to disallow the goal.

 

[Cooperman]

I can handle human error upon times, what I can't get my head around is the level of incompetence with the technology available to them.

And this is the most astonishing part of it all.

There should be stronger clarity and more common sense on when it is to be used, and then apply it as per those new guidelines.

 

[Cooperman]

Were there though?

What title was ever decided by a genuine on-field clanger in recent memory?

The only one I can think of is when Howard Webb made up a penalty to give to Manchester United in 2009 when they were 2 down at home to Spurs at half time. But even then, United ended up winning 5-2. And the title by several points. So it probably didn't really make that much difference.

VAR was created to solve problems that weren't really there. As far as I can see, the only ones to really benefit are the TV companies, who stand a better chance of getting a few talking points to discuss during boring 0-0s.

Come on, it’s not just title deciders that are bracketed as games of significance. Relegation battles, fights for Europe, derby matches, etc. all have things riding on them where the decision needs to be the correct one.

 

[Smurph]

And this is the most astonishing part of it all.

There should be stronger clarity and more common sense on when it is to be used, and then apply it as per those new guidelines.

Yep, if anything the standard of officiating has plummeted.

 

[J_B]

Some referees are reluctant to make big calls knowing that VAR will ultimately make the decisions and it will be VAR's fault and not the ref's.

 

[Tafkaanh]

Come on, it’s not just title deciders that are bracketed as games of significance. Relegation battles, fights for Europe, derby matches, etc. all have things riding on them where the decision needs to be the correct one.

Ok, again my question still stands though. How many actual instances?

I thought of a couple more. Bolton had a goal that went over the line in 1998 but it wasn't given and Everton stayed up as a result. Henry handball to put Ireland out of World Cup. After that I am struggling though.

So in 36 years watching football I can only think of two, maybe three clangers that cost teams something big. Was it really worth catching those for the VAR shambles we've got now? No way. Not for me.

 

[Manselton Jack]

The game has got itself into a ridiculous position because refs haven't addressed the holding/grappling that goes on at every corner. There are multiple fouls taking place so where do you start?
Raya is definitely being fouled by the striker with his arm across his neck & it stop him getting the ball so I think it's the correct decision.
Apart from that, Rice definitely fouls Mavrapanos but that takes place after the foul on Raya (it was checked) so wouldn't be a penalty.
Odeggard & a West Ham player were wrestling each other, another West Ham player was pulling Raya's shirt while Pablo was fouling him.
Soucek & an Arsenal defender are grappling & both go down & then the West Ham keeper goes for the ball, misses it & wipes out Gabriel!
Utter chaos but officials have been letting so much go for so long that the players are taking the piss basically.