Iwan Morgan

[Risc]

One thing I have liked about Martin was how he's used Congreve. I didn't think Cam was ready, and he clearly wasn't, but having these experiences to build on can be so beneficial to development. Even that game where he was subbed off early I think was well-handled. Cam went through a rough period after that, went away with Wales and seemed like nothing was working for him, but he got through it.

Generally though we've never shown enough faith or patience with our own youngsters. Cabango had to fight tooth and nail past loanees to get minutes under Cooper as a teenager. The rest of our graduates have all had to wait until they were 20/21/22 to get a look in. Roberts was nowhere in the PL until Carvalhal asked Alan Curtis if there was anyone at the club to come in for a cup tie so Naughton could have a rest. DJ was promised minutes under Clement "when we were safe" which didn't happen for whatever reason. We're not a fashionable enough academy to expect other clubs to do the first step into senior football for us, as we have too-often done for others.

Watts, Cotterill, Lloyd, Congreve, Thomas and Morgan all look to have talent enough to make fantastic careers for themselves if opportunities arise. It's as good a group as we've ever had for quantity of quality coming through. Lissah, Dabrowski and Jenkins have had good progress stalled with injuries. Abdulai and McFayden can't learn anything more at u21s level.

I thought Russ could have done a bit more to be honest Jasp.

Cooper not getting a look in until Stoke away, I thought McFayden very unlucky to not get some minutes when we were struggling badly from wing back, this one in hindsight obviously as didn't know alot about him, but Joe Thomas too when Lati who is a centre half being persisted with from right back.

 

[bakajack]

One thing I have liked about Martin was how he's used Congreve. I didn't think Cam was ready, and he clearly wasn't, but having these experiences to build on can be so beneficial to development. Even that game where he was subbed off early I think was well-handled. Cam went through a rough period after that, went away with Wales and seemed like nothing was working for him, but he got through it.

Generally though we've never shown enough faith or patience with our own youngsters. Cabango had to fight tooth and nail past loanees to get minutes under Cooper as a teenager. The rest of our graduates have all had to wait until they were 20/21/22 to get a look in. Roberts was nowhere in the PL until Carvalhal asked Alan Curtis if there was anyone at the club to come in for a cup tie so Naughton could have a rest. DJ was promised minutes under Clement "when we were safe" which didn't happen for whatever reason. We're not a fashionable enough academy to expect other clubs to do the first step into senior football for us, as we have too-often done for others.

Watts, Cotterill, Lloyd, Congreve, Thomas and Morgan all look to have talent enough to make fantastic careers for themselves if opportunities arise. It's as good a group as we've ever had for quantity of quality coming through. Lissah, Dabrowski and Jenkins have had good progress stalled with injuries. Abdulai and McFayden can't learn anything more at u21s level.

I totally disagree with RMs treatment of Congreve, the game where he finally got a start and after a single bad pass (which did lead to a goal conceded) he was hooked instantly and didn't even make the bench for over half the season. If that isn't the way to ruin a young player's confidence I don't know what is.

 

[jasper_T]

Congreve's head had clearly gone, it wasn't just one bad pass, so imo as a rabid Martin-hater taking him off was the right move in the circumstances. By changing the shape at the same time Martin made is less of an individual issue, we were two down and needed a drastic change. Cam took it well, shook everyone's hand coming off. As I said, he struggled for a while afterwards and was very poor with Wales u18s so going back to the u21s for a few months made sense. Has built back into form and confidence, can take what he's learned in a dozen or so senior experiences and go again in preseason. Progress will not always be smooth and linear, and the positives of his early involvement should outweigh the (perceived or real) damage of any negatives. DJ hadn't even gone to Shrewsbury when he was Cam's age. 19 year old Joe Rodon "looked scared to head the ball" in League Two.

McFayden has been injured this season which scuppered chances of getting appearances. I was hoping a few would show up on the final day but there we go. Wasn't quite a dead rubber as West Brom might have been playing for something if other results went their way, but sticking with the loanee and out of contract players maybe shows Martin's mind wasn't on next season.

 

[JackSomething]

I sometimes think we're too slow to get very talented young players into the first team.
Read yesterday that Saka has played 134 Premier league games for Arsenal and 180 first team games in total at the age of 21.
Obviously he's an exceptional talent but we seem to think that players of his age are still young and just starting their first team careers.
If you're good enough you're old enough.

Oli Cooper has only just had a breakout season and he's going to be 24 in December! He was 21 before he even got on the pitch for the first team.

For all we know he wasn't ready to be a first team regular until his loan season at Newport, but it's frustrating to see it's taken that long for a talented player to get a real chance.