Learning a foreign language

[Squarebear]

I studied (in the crappest sense of the word) French for five years at school, but upon arrival at Boulogne some years later I found my vocabulary did not extend to being able to ask where the loo was (though I had a broad knowledge of the names of different types of hats).

I'd now like to learn conversational French, just so I can get by there. It'd be nice to be perfect in the tenses but frankly I'm playing the 80/20 game here, and at my time of life I'm conscious of less and less of what I learn actually sticking these days.

Anyone have experience of learning a language later in life? What went well? What didn't? Best approach just rocking up in a country and simply striving to survive?

 

[Ebo]

Try downloading the Duolingo app. It is free but ad driven. There is a premium version too.

I did it to brush up on my Welsh and found it quite fun. You can go back and re-do lessons as well.

 

[Pegojack]

I'm in the middle of learning Spanish seriously for the first time at 67, for obvious reasons. I've always had a bit of French due to a lifelong love of the country and culture, but I'm trying to improve it now as well because I've made several French friends over here in Spain.
Duolingo is free online and quite good for both languages. I've got The Collins grammar book for both languages and they're good too.
There's no one recommended method, we go to classes, we watch Spanish TV with Spanish subtitles, we have an 'intercambio' once a week with two Spaniards who want to learn English, we read Spanish books and newspapers.
But there's no substitute for just talking to sympathetic natives and making mistakes. Lots of red wine helps, I find!

 

[CygnusX1]

Sounds like you already have a base knowledge so this might not be of use.

I learnt some basic conversational Mandarin for a month long trip to China in 2005. I used Pimsleur CDs which I listened to over and over whenever I could. Made a massive difference to my trip, from basic stuff to having a basic conversations.

The cons of this are obviously you’ll only learn what is being taught and you can’t ask questions.
There are different levels available

This is the sort of thing. Listen to the audible sample and it’ll show you exactly what it’s like.

This picture is a link

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pimsleur-French-Level-Lessons-11-15/dp/B07FXSCD8N/ref=sr_1_8?adgrpid=52740861243&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgtPqnNi09wIVc4BQBh3fLQx7EAAYAyAAEgLVCPD_BwE&hvadid=259043605167&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1007014&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6507950440993105245&hvtargid=kwd-298832822107&hydadcr=24401_1748869&keywords=pimsleur+french&qid=1651077839&sr=8-8

 

[JustJack]

Duolingo is free but the experts don't recommend it for any long term learning other than short phrases

The brain is incredible, what we don't realise is that when we speak to one another in our native tongue, there are no actual gaps or pauses after each word, but our brain automatically chunks the words up and inputs that pause, which is why when you hear people speak in a language you don't understand, you do not hear anything but a continuous sound

They say it takes the brain only 2 weeks of constant exposure to a language, for it to start breaking familiar sounds up and chucking them into recognisable words, from my experience of travelling I believe this to be true.

As such, sound is your friend, listen to as many audiobooks/podcasts/youtube videos as you can, just for your brain to register those sounds, I believe that is the trick that most foreign Premier League managers utilise or used to, literally listening and playing audiotapes over and over.

I recommend this site as well, these kind of courses are what diplomats use if they have to learn a language quickly and need the basics, DuoLingo will tell you what colour your cat is but these are more practical

https://www.fsi-language-courses.org/

 

[Pegojack]

Sounds like you already have a base knowledge so this might not be of use.

I learnt some basic conversational Mandarin for a month long trip to China in 2005. I used Pimsleur CDs which I listened to over and over whenever I could. Made a massive difference to my trip, from basic stuff to having a basic conversations.

The cons of this are obviously you’ll only learn what is being taught and you can’t ask questions.
There are different levels available

This is the sort of thing. Listen to the audible sample and it’ll show you exactly what it’s like.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pimsleur-French-Level-Lessons-11-15/dp/B07FXSCD8N/ref=sr_1_8?adgrpid=52740861243&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgtPqnNi09wIVc4BQBh3fLQx7EAAYAyAAEgLVCPD_BwE&hvadid=259043605167&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1007014&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6507950440993105245&hvtargid=kwd-298832822107&hydadcr=24401_1748869&keywords=pimsleur+french&qid=1651077839&sr=8-8

Yes, I forgot to mention that. A mate lent me a Pimsleur Spanish course (Mexican Spanish) on a memory stick and we used to play it continually in the car, repeating the words and phrases as directed. It builds up in complexity every lesson. Very good, and I'll never be stuck for ordering a beer and sandwich in Mexico if I only have 20 pesos in my pocket!

 

[WxmJax]

Try the Michel Thomas courses, you can pick them up cheaply on eBay.
Lots of simple stuff such as most things ending in "tion" are the same but just pronounced differently.
Reservation..... reservar-shawn
Vacation...vacar-shawn.

Then there's the CaReFuL consonants. If a word doesn't end in C, R, F or L it is silent.

I've got the French, Italian and Spanish courses. Mind you when I went to France, for some reason I started speaking in Welsh, when I went to Italy I started speaking in French and then when I went to Spain I started speaking in Italian. That's probably more to do with me being a bit thick though when it comes to languages.
I can however claim to speak Esperanto like a native.

 

[Longlostjack]

Duolingo is free but the experts don't recommend it for any long term learning other than short phrases

The brain is incredible, what we don't realise is that when we speak to one another in our native tongue, there are no actual gaps or pauses after each word, but our brain automatically chunks the words up and inputs that pause, which is why when you hear people speak in a language you don't understand, you do not hear anything but a continuous sound

They say it takes the brain only 2 weeks of constant exposure to a language, for it to start breaking familiar sounds up and chucking them into recognisable words, from my experience of travelling I believe this to be true.

As such, sound is your friend, listen to as many audiobooks/podcasts/youtube videos as you can, just for your brain to register those sounds, I believe that is the trick that most foreign Premier League managers utilise or used to, literally listening and playing audiotapes over and over.

I recommend this site as well, these kind of courses are what diplomats use if they have to learn a language quickly and need the basics, DuoLingo will tell you what colour your cat is but these are more practical

https://www.fsi-language-courses.org/

I spent two years in a small town in Sweden and watched endless TV. You’re absolutely right. After a few weeks I realised that „slut“ was not the prelude to a sex scene but meant end finished or exhausted and was a common word. I was able to follow political discussions easily after a year. Unfortunately I couldn’t string two sentences together when I opened my mouth. Passive versus active knowledge. You need people to talk with to improve the latter.

 

[Cooperman]

I would also recommend the audio learning route. Some years back I was back and forth to Poland twice per month over a two year stint so used the M4 Heathrow commute as a means of using audio learning whilst driving. Come the end of my time there I was quite proficient but then didn’t speak anything for some years until the kids started school. It turned out that they had a lot of Polish classmates whose parents I could then converse with reasonably well.

 

[Jack2jack]

When ever I go away I always like to learn a few phrases, it surprising how much they appreciate your efforts. YouTube is full of tutorials.

 

[K23]

When ever I go away I always like to learn a few phrases, it surprising how much they appreciate your efforts. YouTube is full of tutorials.

Agree 100% with that. Portuguese is one I really struggle with despite having been there many times. I know some very basic Spanish and while the spelling of some Portuguese words can be quite similar, the pronunciation can be very very different!

I did French in school in the 1960s but I was taught exceptionally well and a lot of it has stuck more than 50 years later. I've been to France a number of times and can get by quite well after a couple of days. I was in France in February and had a very nice (if basic) conversation with a guy on the top of a mountain! His English was probably about as good (or as poor) as my French but I think we both appreciated the efforts made in each other's language.

 

[Cooperman]

I was in France in February and had a very nice (if basic) conversation with a guy on the top of a mountain! His English was probably about as good (or as poor) as my French but I think we both appreciated the efforts made in each other's language.

So you asked him where the railway station is and he told you he likes fish and chips?

 

[K23]

I was in France in February and had a very nice (if basic) conversation with a guy on the top of a mountain! His English was probably about as good (or as poor) as my French but I think we both appreciated the efforts made in each other's language.

So you asked him where the railway station is and he told you he likes fish and chips?

Yes, something like that! Are you old enough to remember the Monty Python Hungarian phrase book sketch?

https://youtu.be/bNP7uQQT-oo

 

[Jack2jack]

When ever I go away I always like to learn a few phrases, it surprising how much they appreciate your efforts. YouTube is full of tutorials.

Agree 100% with that. Portuguese is one I really struggle with despite having been there many times. I know some very basic Spanish and while the spelling of some Portuguese words can be quite similar, the pronunciation can be very very different!

I did French in school in the 1960s but I was taught exceptionally well and a lot of it has stuck more than 50 years later. I've been to France a number of times and can get by quite well after a couple of days. I was in France in February and had a very nice (if basic) conversation with a guy on the top of a mountain! His English was probably about as good (or as poor) as my French but I think we both appreciated the efforts made in each other's language.

My French is as basic as it comes, but has come in handy a few times, although I've come unstuck a few times, when they think you're fluent in the lingo, only to realise you're a bit clueless. I love italian and Italy, and I did start to learn a bit more during lockdown but didn't get very far, will have to give it another go some day.
It makes us a bit lazy knowing that English is widely spoken elsewhere, to a degree.

 

[K23]

Agree 100% with that. Portuguese is one I really struggle with despite having been there many times. I know some very basic Spanish and while the spelling of some Portuguese words can be quite similar, the pronunciation can be very very different!

I did French in school in the 1960s but I was taught exceptionally well and a lot of it has stuck more than 50 years later. I've been to France a number of times and can get by quite well after a couple of days. I was in France in February and had a very nice (if basic) conversation with a guy on the top of a mountain! His English was probably about as good (or as poor) as my French but I think we both appreciated the efforts made in each other's language.

My French is as basic as it comes, but has come in handy a few times, although I've come unstuck a few times, when they think you're fluent in the lingo, only to realise you're a bit clueless. I love italian and Italy, and I did start to learn a bit more during lockdown but didn't get very far, will have to give it another go some day.
It makes us a bit lazy knowing that English is widely spoken elsewhere, to a degree.

Yeah, I love Italy too. Positano is probably my favourite place I've visited anywhere, a breathtakingly beautiful place. Your last sentence says it all though about English being so widely spoken. I was in Iceland a few weeks ago and had conversations with a supermarket checkout girl, the young lad who made my pizza in Domino's and the bloke who helped me sort out the misbehaving petrol pump I was trying to use miles from anywhere, which were all just like any conversations I could have had with their counterparts in Somerset, in fact, their English may well have been better! In all the time I was there, I didn't come across anyone who didn't speak very good English.