New Manager

[monmouth]

I was the back end of a unicorn once. Mainly because of the girl at the front, but unfortunately she was a vegetarian. Not my finest idea.

 

[FearOfAJackPlanet]

Exactly, look at what Lampard has done with Coventry took over with them in the relegation and now they’re 5th in the table.

They finished 9th and almost got to the FA Cup final last season, and then spent over 20 million quid on squad strengthening. They weren’t staying anywhere near the relegation zone for long whoever was in charge. Lampard just got them about where they’d expect to be.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

They finished 9th and almost got to the FA Cup final last season, and then spent over 20 million quid on squad strengthening. They weren’t staying anywhere near the relegation zone for long whoever was in charge. Lampard just got them about where they’d expect to be.

And Grimesey. Don’t forget Grimesey.

 

[FearOfAJackPlanet]

And Grimesey. Don’t forget Grimesey.

Well, quite. The vital missing piece in any squad’s jigsaw.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

Well, quite. The vital missing piece in any squad’s jigsaw.

In so many ways.

 

[Smurph]

They finished 9th and almost got to the FA Cup final last season, and then spent over 20 million quid on squad strengthening. They weren’t staying anywhere near the relegation zone for long whoever was in charge. Lampard just got them about where they’d expect to be.

Regardless of what they've spent or where they finished last season, the job Lampard has done since coming in as manager deserves some credit.

 

[FearOfAJackPlanet]

Regardless of what they've spent or where they finished last season, the job Lampard has done since coming in as manager deserves some credit.

Of course. But if we could imagine Lampard came to us instead of Coventry at that time, I don't think we'd be too far away from where we are now in the table (assuming the January window went the same way). Our attacking line up of Eom, Ronald, VIP and Cullen would not suddenly be showing real quality in the final 3rd, so we'd largely have the same problems. You can guarantee there'd be mutterings that Lampard simply 'doesn't have what it takes' etc.even though it's the same man who apparently 'does have what it takes' in Coventry, a well-run club on the rise who invest heavily in the playing squad.

 

[Smurph]

Of course. But if we could imagine Lampard came to us instead of Coventry at that time, I don't think we'd be too far away from where we are now in the table (assuming the January window went the same way). Our attacking line up of Eom, Ronald, VIP and Cullen would not suddenly be showing real quality in the final 3rd, so we'd largely have the same problems. You can guarantee there'd be mutterings that Lampard simply 'doesn't have what it takes' etc.even though it's the same man who apparently 'does have what it takes' in Coventry, a well-run club on the rise who invest heavily in the playing squad.

I think the original point which sparked this discussion was about a manager going in to a club and getting better performances out of the same group of players as the previous manager.

Which is what Lampard has done with Coventry.

 

[FearOfAJackPlanet]

I'm not a total fatalist on this, I can absolutely see the benefits that different coaches/approaches can have on a squad of players, that the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts. That you can, to use our DOF's fave term, 'over-perform' with the resources you have if you have the right set-up.

We've seen some evidence of that with the transition from Williams to Sheehan: a more pragmatic tactical approach, less slow-paced, dawdling possession by rote, more players in and around VIP in the final 3rd and so on. But there are obviously limits to what a new approach can achieve, as we've seen evidence of with Sheehan.

I hope whoever gets appointed (hopefully next week), is not written off by the end of the season as he can't magically get Ronald to cross a ball etc.

 

[Deleted member 1454]

I think the original point which sparked this discussion was about a manager going in to a club and getting better performances out of the same group of players as the previous manager.

Which is what Lampard has done with Coventry.

Duff came in after Martin - it didn't improve, strong argument it went backwards

Sheehan briefly replaced Duff - it improved only very marginally

Williams replaced Sheehan - it improved only marginally and then went very bad again

Sheehan has replaced Williams - it has improved very marginally

On the balance of probability, it has to be the players. Ok, we probably haven't had the best coaches in the world there but surely, it's more likely the problem is the players than it is the coaches.

 

[Smurph]

Duff came in after Martin - it didn't improve, strong argument it went backwards

Sheehan briefly replaced Duff - it improved only very marginally

Williams replaced Sheehan - it improved only marginally and then went very bad again

Sheehan has replaced Williams - it has improved very marginally

On the balance of probability, it has to be the players. Ok, we probably haven't had the best coaches in the world there but surely, it's more likely the problem is the players than it is the coaches.

Either that or four really shit managers.

 

[monmouth]

I'm not a total fatalist on this, I can absolutely see the benefits that different coaches/approaches can have on a squad of players, that the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts. That you can, to use our DOF's fave term, 'over-perform' with the resources you have if you have the right set-up.

We've seen some evidence of that with the transition from Williams to Sheehan: a more pragmatic tactical approach, less slow-paced, dawdling possession by rote, more players in and around VIP in the final 3rd and so on. But there are obviously limits to what a new approach can achieve, as we've seen evidence of with Sheehan.

I hope whoever gets appointed (hopefully next week), is not written off by the end of the season as he can't magically get Ronald to cross a ball etc.

He could perhaps magically not pick Ronald every week...

I get your point, but a good manager would see right through Fulton and use his tools a bit more effectively maybe. Do I trust us to pick a good 'un? Frankly, no.

 

[monmouth]

Either that or four really shit managers.

That have deskilled and pre-programmed many of the players.

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other isn't it?

 

[Smurph]

That have deskilled and pre-programmed many of the players.

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other isn't it?

Granted we haven't had the strongest of squads over the last few years.

Martin and pound shop Martin continued to play players out of position each week and ask them to do things they weren't, aren't capable of doing.

Take Cabango for example. He's ok at heading the ball and tackling. If we ask him to pay like Maldini then we're going to struggle.

 

[magicdaps10]

Betting not available at the moment.

Surely they are looking at an appointment in the next 2 weeks.
I have the feeling that the initial appointment will be until the end of the season.