Rachel Reeves

[monmouth]

I agree with you, but they won't ignore the noise because they are a continuity government of the Right. Their whole MO is to try and keep things more or less exactly as they are, bar a few little bits of tinkering around the edges, so they keep big business and billionaires happy. Then they are banking on stuff like slightly smaller waiting lists/slightly better trains/slightly better public services etc being noticed by just enough people by 2029.

(An approach which, as we can see from the polls, is almost certainly destined to fail dismally).

From their point of view, if it somehow works, great. If not, then bye bye, resign, and do the after dinner circuit like Johnson, or set up a little think-tank like Blair did, to put pressure on the party to stay to the Right.

That's why I get so frustrated at such a wasted opportunity. Such a disappointment. And yes, while the likes of the idiot Glasman are driving the bus, it's doomed. Christ alone knows what the next Government will be.

 

[3swan]

Oh I agree they are still wholly unacceptable, but no longer, apparently, heading north as they would have under the Fash. I'd like to see some analysis too, but my point was really they need to market themselves so much better. Not a political bone in Starmer's body or his children henchmen.

On the waiting lists, my wife was told to see a knee consultant she'd have to wait 72 weeks to just see a consultant and then 2 years after that for an op. So, of course we went private and saw the consultant in 2 weeks. It's privatisation in all but name, and that's where 14 years of scum tories got us while inequality rocketed and they creamed off all the...cream.

Of course Fartage wants to privatise on the American model. That'll help.

The worst thing is, going private doesn't reduce waiting time as it's the same consultants/surgeons. So there's not even any halo effect. It puts someone one nearer but there are no extra slots available. The supply side is going to be a real problem, even if you could manage the demand side somehow, and if you could manage the supply side, the demand side would be a real problem. My wife's surgery can't get doctors.

We need a proper cross party conversation about the NHS and the options, but we're not going to get it.

A few years ago I needed an op, but was told that the waiting list was over 12 months.
Then I was told the op that I had chosen wasn't available at my local so would go on the waiting list at Cambridge.
Two months of nothing so I decided to go private and within 3 weeks had it done in Luton.
2 weeks later I had a letter from Cambridge that I was now on their waiting list but a minimum 12 months.
So as I had gone private my name was taken off the NHS list allowing one more person to be moved up the list.
Same number of people but different list

Last year different op needed and again took an age to get initial appointment.
My local G.P. surgery asked if I wanted to go on the waiting list at the private hospital ( paid by NHS) on the same site as my local hospital as it should be quicker.
Yes and was told about 4 months. It ended up about 7.

I agree that the total people waiting doesn't change whether NHS or private, but while NHS surgeons are doing private work, it won't change.
What can bring it down is using the spare theatre capacity in private hospitals to the full, when NHS are at capacity.

One thing to add the Government did have the fanfare about X million more appointments done, but is that sustainable when expecting staff to do extended overtime periods?

 

[monmouth]

Took this from the Grauniad, Clive. The prognosis is bleak as the doctors have everyone over a barrel. It seems we are not all in it together. Obviously social care has to be addressed alongside NHS. We are just reaping the whirlwind of decades of terrible decisions now.

It mattered enough to Rachel Reeves that she used her first tax-raising budget partly to fund 2m extra NHS appointments, and when waiting lists fell this May for the first time in 17 years, it looked as though the medicine might be working. Though by August they were creeping up again, after a summer heatwave and another strike, they fell once more in September: 61.8% of patients currently get treated within 18 weeks of referral and NHS executives are confident that could be 65% by next March, on track for 92% – the target set and met by the Blair government, but consistently missed for a decade – by 2029.

Yet progress remains fragile, which helps explain why Streeting’s frustrationboiled over on Thursday, as resident doctors who got a 28.9% pay rise last year prepared to walk out once more. The BMA, he suggested, is only too quick to lobby against doctors paying higher taxes, while demanding the state pay them more out of other people’s taxes.

 

[rockinj]

Agree, but it does all start to make sense, once you alter your thinking to regard Labour as just another party of the Right.

Once you view it through that lens, nothing surprises you.

This isn't a Labour party, as intended and as it was invented for. It's just a brand that's been hijacked by people for their own ends.

Explain… truly explain how what they’ve done so far is from the right?

I’m intrigued. Do you think that last budget and what is being suggested is right wing?

 

[3swan]

Took this from the Grauniad, Clive. The prognosis is bleak as the doctors have everyone over a barrel. It seems we are not all in it together. Obviously social care has to be addressed alongside NHS. We are just reaping the whirlwind of decades of terrible decisions now.

It mattered enough to Rachel Reeves that she used her first tax-raising budget partly to fund 2m extra NHS appointments, and when waiting lists fell this May for the first time in 17 years, it looked as though the medicine might be working. Though by August they were creeping up again, after a summer heatwave and another strike, they fell once more in September: 61.8% of patients currently get treated within 18 weeks of referral and NHS executives are confident that could be 65% by next March, on track for 92% – the target set and met by the Blair government, but consistently missed for a decade – by 2029.

Yet progress remains fragile, which helps explain why Streeting’s frustrationboiled over on Thursday, as resident doctors who got a 28.9% pay rise last year prepared to walk out once more. The BMA, he suggested, is only too quick to lobby against doctors paying higher taxes, while demanding the state pay them more out of other people’s taxes.

Thanks for that.

Massive improvement needed to get from 65% to 92%

As you posted earlier it needs a proper cross party agreement where today’s issues need addressing and that must include social care.
For every positive initiative there comes along an unforeseen negative one.
It’s beyond belief that many patients are struggling in pain and life debilitating issues while politicians score points against each other

 

[monmouth]

Aye, it's looking increasingly like same car, different clowns (thanks Marina H or John C).

 

[rockinj]

Thanks for that.

Massive improvement needed to get from 65% to 92%

As you posted earlier it needs a proper cross party agreement where today’s issues need addressing and that must include social care.
For every positive initiative there comes along an unforeseen negative one.
It’s beyond belief that many patients are struggling in pain and life debilitating issues while politicians score points against each other

One of the biggest problems with the NHS is that we have a separate system to England.

So we have the worst of all worlds.

We have the bureaucracy of a nationalised system without the benefit of the bureaucracy with in theory more collobaration.

Let’s not kid ourselves though English system is on so many levels way better and will be a lot better than Welsh system by end of the Parliament.

 

[3swan]

One of the biggest problems with the NHS is that we have a separate system to England.

So we have the worst of all worlds.

We have the bureaucracy of a nationalised system without the benefit of the bureaucracy with in theory more collobaration.

Let’s not kid ourselves though English system is on so many levels way better and will be a lot better than Welsh system by end of the Parliament.

Could well be but my comments have been based on the English system.
Can’t comment on Wales but if worse then it’s a very low starting point

 

[rockinj]

Could well be but my comments have been based on the English system.
Can’t comment on Wales but if worse then it’s a very low starting point

Yes that’s why I mentioned it because the conflation although understandable can be frustrating many of the English targets are higher for example.

 

[3swan]

Yes that’s why I mentioned it because the conflation although understandable can be frustrating many of the English targets are higher for example.

There was an article I think on the BBC site a few days ago where you could select your local hospital to see how they fared in cancer waiting lists
All were failing it really is a bleak outlook

 

[rockinj]

There was an article I think on the BBC site a few days ago where you could select your local hospital to see how they fared in cancer waiting lists
All were failing it really is a bleak outlook

It is. I personally think it needs to be moving towards a European model but I know that puts me to the right of Genghis Khan

 

[3swan]

It is. I personally think it needs to be moving towards a European model but I know that puts me to the right of Genghis Khan

It needs something, and blinkers must be taken off, as it’s not working now, and won’t be much different in the foreseeable future and beyond.

 

[rockinj]

It needs something, and blinkers must be taken off, as it’s not working now, and won’t be much different in the foreseeable future and beyond.

That’s why it needs to be depoliticised which is next to impossible. Decisions on it need to be made for 20 years hence

 

[J_B]

That’s why it needs to be depoliticised which is next to impossible. Decisions on it need to be made for 20 years hence

Yes, and education.
Short termism is directly leading to failure and both are far too important to be allowed to fail.