The difference between Martin and Martinez

[3swan]

IMO, the whole key to possession based football is movement. Under Laudrup, we had Leon and de Guzman in front of him, both of whom were instinctively capable of finding space so that anyone on the pitch, no matter who or where they were, always had an option for a pass and when you've got 2 or 3 players who are always on the move and looking for the ball, that ethos spreads through the team and movement becomes the priority which in turn drives high possession percentages. Leon and JdG were so good at it that it was like having 2 additional players in midfield so even if the opposition matched us up with numbers in midfield, we still often looked like we outnumbered them.

Most of the time, Martin's team has no movement whatsoever in front of the player with the ball so very often, the only pass option if we want to keep possession, is sideways or backwards. You can't make high possession stats the priority if it's not being driven by good movement all over the pitch and likewise, if you don't have enough movement, you simply cannot play possession based football no matter how much you may want to.

Leon and JDG.

Yes not only were they always on the move they were always aware of the picture around them.
When the body wasn't moving their eyes were.

 

[Uxy]

IMO, the whole key to possession based football is movement. Under Laudrup, we had Leon and de Guzman in front of him, both of whom were instinctively capable of finding space so that anyone on the pitch, no matter who or where they were, always had an option for a pass and when you've got 2 or 3 players who are always on the move and looking for the ball, that ethos spreads through the team and movement becomes the priority which in turn drives high possession percentages. Leon and JdG were so good at it that it was like having 2 additional players in midfield so even if the opposition matched us up with numbers in midfield, we still often looked like we outnumbered them.

Most of the time, Martin's team has no movement whatsoever in front of the player with the ball so very often, the only pass option if we want to keep possession, is sideways or backwards. You can't make high possession stats the priority if it's not being driven by good movement all over the pitch and likewise, if you don't have enough movement, you simply cannot play possession based football no matter how much you may want to.

Our lack of movement drove me potty last season. I've come to the conclusion it's how he wants it.

 

[Vetchonian]

IMO, the whole key to possession based football is movement. Under Laudrup, we had Leon and de Guzman in front of him, both of whom were instinctively capable of finding space so that anyone on the pitch, no matter who or where they were, always had an option for a pass and when you've got 2 or 3 players who are always on the move and looking for the ball, that ethos spreads through the team and movement becomes the priority which in turn drives high possession percentages. Leon and JdG were so good at it that it was like having 2 additional players in midfield so even if the opposition matched us up with numbers in midfield, we still often looked like we outnumbered them.

Most of the time, Martin's team has no movement whatsoever in front of the player with the ball so very often, the only pass option if we want to keep possession, is sideways or backwards. You can't make high possession stats the priority if it's not being driven by good movement all over the pitch and likewise, if you don't have enough movement, you simply cannot play possession based football no matter how much you may want to.

Our lack of movement drove me potty last season. I've come to the conclusion it's how he wants it.

And the players are too "scared" to do something different for fear of being shipped out as not seen to "fit"

 

[Swanseastar]

Football is all about movement. With and without the ball to create the space to play in to. This side Under Martin is terrible at it. Everything is so ridged. Anyone can teach a team to just keep the ball with no risk.

 

[Neath_Jack]

I haven't heard the ''process'' quote yet this season. However I don't read or listen to his pre or post match analysis. Is he still spouting it? :?:

“The process”? That was so last season, we’ve moved on from there and gone full blown Defcon 5 arse dribble. Have a listen to this pearler from a few days back.

#Aha!

https://twitter.com/swansofficial/status/1554803680905412615?s=21

The David Brent of professional football.

 

[moscowjack]

Some good comments here....

One of the biggest differences between past passing Swans teams and now is the lack of triangles and movement.

We had the likes of Leon taking the ball off the defence and making it easier for them. He'd then feed other midfielders or attackers, with easy passes and simple movement. The likes of Rangel and Dyer looked like top PL players because of the passing and movement, with various players going wide to create the triangle in that system. That system demanded triangles.

Pass and move....pass and move. Now we have pass and wait for the ball straight back to you, but with the opposition now hassling you even more.

Last night, we had players like Wood clearly ignoring a simple pass to Joe Allen as they don't know his game. He turns on the ball, like Leon did. Grimes always plays the way he's facing, which isn't easy for a defender as he knows he's going to be under even more pressure. This needs to be addressed really quickly as it will make our defender's lives easier, but also help us get through the lines. Opposition will work that out, but that's where the triangles come into it again.

I really like Russ and what he's trying to do, but I am questioning whether he really understands the full extent of what a passing team needs to do to be more than just a passing backwards/sideways team that's easy to play against.

I want us to go back to basics on Saturday. Obefemi's pace is important, but he's not holding the ball up enough. I'd like Piroe back up top and crowd the midfield, even if that means Joe, Grimes and Jay start.

Personally, I'd rather see an u21 at right wingback than Latibeaudiere. He offers nothing going forward, no matter how hard he tries. We have no threat or balance there, but in the absence of any strong alternative, I'd rather see a kid tried and tested. We'd have a back 3 and 3 strong central midfielders to cover him.

Pass a f'ing move. That's what I want to see but I'd take a 0-0 draw right now. We need to build from the back and go from there. A clean sheet is essential.

Finally, I love Kyle Naughton but he slows us down so much. We need to pass the ball FAR FAR quicker than we have been, or it's pointless to change sides. It's too easy for the opposition.

I don't know if RM has the ability to change things, but really hope he can. Whether we have the right players to do well in this league is another question. Personally, I think we're screaming out for a no.8 in the Pratley mould.

Blackpool away is now huge......

 

[Swanjaxs]

The difference between Martin and Martinez...

It's like comparing a club sandwich to a shìt sandwich.

 

[Vetchonian]

Some good comments here....

One of the biggest differences between past passing Swans teams and now is the lack of triangles and movement.

We had the likes of Leon taking the ball off the defence and making it easier for them. He'd then feed other midfielders or attackers, with easy passes and simple movement. The likes of Rangel and Dyer looked like top PL players because of the passing and movement, with various players going wide to create the triangle in that system. That system demanded triangles.

Pass and move....pass and move. Now we have pass and wait for the ball straight back to you, but with the opposition now hassling you even more.

Last night, we had players like Wood clearly ignoring a simple pass to Joe Allen as they don't know his game. He turns on the ball, like Leon did. Grimes always plays the way he's facing, which isn't easy for a defender as he knows he's going to be under even more pressure. This needs to be addressed really quickly as it will make our defender's lives easier, but also help us get through the lines. Opposition will work that out, but that's where the triangles come into it again.

I really like Russ and what he's trying to do, but I am questioning whether he really understands the full extent of what a passing team needs to do to be more than just a passing backwards/sideways team that's easy to play against.

I want us to go back to basics on Saturday. Obefemi's pace is important, but he's not holding the ball up enough. I'd like Piroe back up top and crowd the midfield, even if that means Joe, Grimes and Jay start.

Personally, I'd rather see an u21 at right wingback than Latibeaudiere. He offers nothing going forward, no matter how hard he tries. We have no threat or balance there, but in the absence of any strong alternative, I'd rather see a kid tried and tested. We'd have a back 3 and 3 strong central midfielders to cover him.

Pass a f'ing move. That's what I want to see but I'd take a 0-0 draw right now. We need to build from the back and go from there. A clean sheet is essential.

Finally, I love Kyle Naughton but he slows us down so much. We need to pass the ball FAR FAR quicker than we have been, or it's pointless to change sides. It's too easy for the opposition.

I don't know if RM has the ability to change things, but really hope he can. Whether we have the right players to do well in this league is another question. Personally, I think we're screaming out for a no.8 in the Pratley mould.

Blackpool away is now huge......

Very good assesment...there is a complete lack of movement in the team....hence why Naughton ended up stood there with his foot on the ball for ages on several occasions on Saturday as he looked for options.
IT is as if players are told the positions they should always take up and no one dares moves away from that

Under Martinez as you say the ball moved quickly as a result of players movement possesion wasnt a prime target of Martinezs though he recognised keeping the ball from the opponents gave them less chance to hurt you but his philosphy was about using the ball and attacking at pace with a you score 1 we will score 2 mentality.

YOu are right about Grimes whilst Fulton gave the ball away which led to Blackburns first goal on Saturday Grimes passed it straight back to him ...as he couldnt turn and play sideways or forwards just straight back to Fulton who dallied and then got robbed.

Martin is not focused how possession is used more on the fact we keep the ball thereby frustrating and tiring the opposition whilst Martinez was focused on making use of the ball on the floor at pace

Personally I dont think Martin does have it to change he believes plan B is lumping balls into the box...Laudrup had several palns dependnat on the opposition..theres another story