The Swan Dive: why Swansea’s attendances have taken a plunge?

[cadleigh]

Just been looking at West Brom's attendance history. Like us and Norwich, they experienced a step up in the early '00s - in their case, they put on around 10,000 over the course of three consecutive seasons (we did it in two steps spaced apart - the move to the new stadium, and then promotion to the Premier League), with the biggest jump coming when they were promoted to the Premier League. Like Norwich - and unlike us - they have maintained an average attendance of over 21,000 despite dropping back to the Championship for the last four seasons.

To Colin's point, West Brom (like Norwich) have been pretty consistently first or second tier since the club was founded in the 1880s, barring a couple of seasons in the 1990s, so supporters won't have experienced the kinds of lows that Swans fans have. But is that enough to explain why their attendances have stayed as high as they have in the case of two clubs but not ours?

Might be helpful to look at a fourth club - Stoke City. They have been in the first or second tier for all but eight years of their 136 year history, so in that sense they are more like Norwich or West Brom than us. Like all three of the other teams we have looked at, they put on c10k extra supporters in the '00s, and like us, they've lost half of that since being relegated. I'd love to know what separates Norwich and West Brom from Stoke and Swansea. I know Norwich is a well run club and works closely with the city council, and I know that Swansea has not been that well run in recent years and has not worked well with the council, but I just don't know enough about the history of the other two clubs. Can anyone advise?

One thing I can tell you is it's not affluence. GDP per head in Stoke was £29.7k in the last government survey, and in Sandwell (where West Brom is) it was £22.7k.

 

[BendJack]

The madness is that in terms of income it wouldn't actually make a massive difference.

Say, for a basic example we sold 18,000 STs at full whack of £459, that works out at around £8.2m. In reality a fair chunk of those would be concessionary prices so the actual amount would probably be closer to £5-6m, maybe lower. And that's if we sold every possible season ticket. An extra 5k on the gate at current prices might mean another two million or so. Peanuts compared to what we've just spent.

This is why an aggressive pricing strategy towards attracting and retaining younger supporters makes sense and probably wouldn't actually have that much of an effect on turnover.

We need to fill the ground for the sake of filling the ground.

Agreed... I was stating earlier in the thread about making the season tickets a much better proposal for supporters and that hasn't changed. The club needs to do some head scratching to boost supporter attendance. It won't be rocket science though - just make the season ticket offer more.

However, if we WERE to add a further 5k seats then you need to account for a larger picture - food & drink sales, merch sales and, more importantly, investing in future support. Kids! Watching football at the stadium is infinitely better than watching the match on screen. Most supporters today are the result from being taken to al matches as a child. So even if the extra 5k seats were reserved for families only, it will be a longer term investment in the future. Let's be clear though - I'm not stating this SHOULD be done - I'm acutely aware an increase in seating will cost millions. We need to walk before we can run - and that includes consistently filling the stadium to capacity.

Session tickets are essential to the club. We need to make these more attractive - a much more attractive proposition to the supporter not just for match days. Exclusive club merch discounts, exclusive local business discounts, exclusives events, freebies, competitions, team meets, autographs...

I'm not claiming these things will be a one-stop solution. More a workable improvement.

I'm writing this quickly on a cellphone so I hope this makes sense.

 

[cadleigh]

Agreed... I was stating earlier in the thread about making the season tickets a much better proposal for supporters and that hasn't changed. The club needs to do some head scratching to boost supporter attendance. It won't be rocket science though - just make the season ticket offer more.

However, if we WERE to add a further 5k seats then you need to account for a larger picture - food & drink sales, merch sales and, more importantly, investing in future support. Kids! Watching football at the stadium is infinitely better than watching the match on screen. Most supporters today are the result from being taken to al matches as a child. So even if the extra 5k seats were reserved for families only, it will be a longer term investment in the future. Let's be clear though - I'm not stating this SHOULD be done - I'm acutely aware an increase in seating will cost millions. We need to walk before we can run - and that includes consistently filling the stadium to capacity.

Session tickets are essential to the club. We need to make these more attractive - a much more attractive proposition to the supporter not just for match days. Exclusive club merch discounts, exclusive local business discounts, exclusives events, freebies, competitions, team meets, autographs...

I'm not claiming these things will be a one-stop solution. More a workable improvement.

I'm writing this quickly on a cellphone so I hope this makes sense.

Great post! All I’d say is that Arsenal decided years ago to invest in stadium expansion rather than buying galacticos as their strategy for long-term success. It took them over a decade but it’s paying off now. (Obviously the choice of manager is also important.) If we want to play with the big boys, we need a stadium that can seat 25k+ and we need to get that many bums on them week in, week out. Snoop and Luca can make us the coolest brand in football. If we can’t convert a generation of life-long Swans supporters now, then when? But we have to make it easier for them with the right pricing and match-day experience.

 

[Flash]

The club also failed to take advantage of the buzz around the premier league promotion in the past. We’ve lost 1/4 of the attendance since going down. Had there been one of the planned expansions to 26000 we would probably have a higher attendance figure now closer to 20,000. So many people tried to get tickets in the premier league days and couldn’t, lots of potential wasted.

 

[cadleigh]

The club also failed to take advantage of the buzz around the premier league promotion in the past. We’ve lost 1/4 of the attendance since going down. Had there been one of the planned expansions to 26000 we would probably have a higher attendance figure now closer to 20,000. So many people tried to get tickets in the premier league days and couldn’t, lots of potential wasted.

Absolutely. I heard that when we were promoted to the Premier League, tickets were handed out on the basis of who you knew, much like the Welsh FA and RFU. Is that fair?

 

[Longlostjack]

The club also failed to take advantage of the buzz around the premier league promotion in the past. We’ve lost 1/4 of the attendance since going down. Had there been one of the planned expansions to 26000 we would probably have a higher attendance figure now closer to 20,000. So many people tried to get tickets in the premier league days and couldn’t, lots of potential wasted.

I’m not sure about that. I had a JA membership and never had a problem getting a ticket. Obviously had to plan ahead a bit. Can imagine it would have been difficult if it was a spur of the moment decision to go.

 

[magicdaps10]

I remember years ago, Aberavon RFC would go into primary schools and offer a season ticket for £1 to under 11s....this was around late 80s and early 90s.
The hope was to then get the parents or guardians to come and pay on the day.
Maybe the club could do the same in schools in and around the area. Offer a season ticket to under 11s for let's say £50 with a code for each game to be used but only valid with atleast one paying adult.

 

[BendJack]

I remember years ago, Aberavon RFC would go into primary schools and offer a season ticket for £1 to under 11s....this was around late 80s and early 90s.
The hope was to then get the parents or guardians to come and pay on the day.
Maybe the club could do the same in schools in and around the area. Offer a season ticket to under 11s for let's say £50 with a code for each game to be used but only valid with atleast one paying adult.

Not a bad idea to work with! Send some coaching staff and players to the regions schools for physical education coaching sessions. Complimentary tickets given to a different school each week in the region, for the school to distribute to pupils who have done well.

This will be seen as a reward for doing well, but psychologically this imprints positively onto the young mind, too. What better way to introduce the team to a younger crowd?! This is even more important when the kid's parents aren't exactly avid supporters or sports fans themselves! I like this idea!

Does the club already do anything like this, though?

 

[magicdaps10]

Not a bad idea to work with! Send some coaching staff and players to the regions schools for physical education coaching sessions. Complimentary tickets given to a different school each week in the region, for the school to distribute to pupils who have done well.

This will be seen as a reward for doing well, but psychologically this imprints positively onto the young mind, too. What better way to introduce the team to a younger crowd?! This is even more important when the kid's parents aren't exactly avid supporters or sports fans themselves! I like this idea!

Does the club already do anything like this, though?

Not that I am aware of.

They need to be looking at young fans, it's been like a broken record from many a poster and it's something that I wish they would take the leap with.....going around schools and giving incentives to the kids to then in turn try and drag an adult to a game with them.

 

[Ringwood]

We've had a lazy or complacent commercial department for years. Nothing changes so neither does our outreach. I have Bournemouth things delivered in the post promoting tickets and offers and they are Prem and I live the same distance as Port Talbot to Swansea from their ground.

 

[BendJack]

Not that I am aware of.

They need to be looking at young fans, it's been like a broken record from many a poster and it's something that I wish they would take the leap with.....going around schools and giving incentives to the kids to then in turn try and drag an adult to a game with them.

We need the commercial team to visit this site every once in a while.... They will learn something!

 

[Colin-swansea]

The position of the Swansea.com stadium is possibly in the wrong place and thank goodness the stadium wasn’t built on the old steelworks site at Velindre as there would be a huge drop of fans lost to the game if that area had been chosen. Having said that there is very little available sites in the City’s boundary where the stadium could be built.

During the early days of the Liberty Stadium a Park and ride facility at Singleton Park was tried and also in the Enterprise Zone just by the M4 slip road, but a lack of fans using the facility forced their closure, and while there are an abundance of buses on the Neath Road, night matches or games on Sunday especially after the last bendy bus had gone(around 6pm) was a long wait.

The re-opening of the Landore Halt station was mooted and while that link would have been ideal, it was soon forgotten when cash had to be put up by the club to make that mode of transport viable.

Likewise with the car park opposite the Landore Park and Ride, I believe this facility was closed last season for games.

For those that park at the Virgin site on the Enterprise Zone and walk up the river needed to wear wet weather gear last season such was the amount of rain that poured down on matchdays. Throw into the equation the turgid style was also a clear reason of fans not attending matches and getting soaked in their trek to the stadium.

Despite falling attendances post Premier League, getting a parking spot in the North Car Park is not easy, as on some games you would be lucky to be able to pay stewards on the gate if you went early, while for the bigger games ticketing would be controlled by the club and the ticket office.

Just imagine(yes it would be a pipedream from our former owners and even Jenkins and co) if they had extended the stadium but just think how many empty seats would be visible on matchdays, as they are in the Cardiff City stadium.

Getting fans to the stadium is a huge problem, not so much for most PL matches, but more so for the Championship and it sums up the problem where parking and rail / road facilities are in short supply. Canvassing / surveys made in West Wales coupled with free tickets for school kids, if it is taken up, plus their parents would be great, but if there is nowhere for them to park their cars / buses it won’t work.

One of the most important area of a football club's future is with their academy and nurturing youngsters to attend matches, with or without their parents but sadly we are living in a world where the thought of walking from the city centre to Landore brings on all sorts of excuses.