The Swan Dive: why Swansea’s attendances have taken a plunge?

[cadleigh]

Norwich is a much wealthier city than Swansea. Large Science Park as well as providing services for much of East Anglia.

I wondered about that, so I looked up the official stats on the House of Commons constituency database.

Swansea West is indeed more deprived than either Norwich North or Norwich South by some way. The average unemployment rate in Swansea West is 4.8%, compared to 3.4% and 3.9% in the two Norwich constituencies respectively, and the average weekly wage is £613 (v £673/£651).

However, I was surprised to discover that both Neath & Swansea East and Gower constituencies have lower unemployment rates and higher weekly wages than either of the Norwich seats.

If you average the unemployment and weekly wage rates for the three Swansea seats and the two Norwich seats you get:
Swansea unemployment 3.3% Swansea average weekly wage £680
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

If you take out Gower on the grounds that it is not representative of Swansea as a whole, you still get:
Swansea unemployment 3.85% Swansea average weekly wage £660
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

So not a lot in it, really. Presumably some people would argue that Carrow Road attracts a fair number of supporters from more affluent outlying villages, but on that basis we should add back in the stats for Gower. I visit Norwich quite often, and I can assure you that a lot of their supporters come from the city itself, and that people shouldn't be misled by the Golden Triangle - there are some really deprived parts of the city.

Not that deprivation is necessarily an indicator of football support. There are five constituencies in Liverpool proper; two of them are amongst the five most deprived constituencies in England, and nearby Knowsley is also in that list. If you've been to Anfield you'll know that their supporters are not all coming in from Hightown.

Swansea has a population of 250,000, Norwich 150,000. They used to get similar gates to what we are getting now, they turned that around. I ask again - how did they do it and what can we learn from their success?

 

[Frankie Burrows Cap]

I wondered about that, so I looked up the official stats on the House of Commons constituency database.

Swansea West is indeed more deprived than either Norwich North or Norwich South by some way. The average unemployment rate in Swansea West is 4.8%, compared to 3.4% and 3.9% in the two Norwich constituencies respectively, and the average weekly wage is £613 (v £673/£651).

However, I was surprised to discover that both Neath & Swansea East and Gower constituencies have lower unemployment rates and higher weekly wages than either of the Norwich seats.

If you average the unemployment and weekly wage rates for the three Swansea seats and the two Norwich seats you get:
Swansea unemployment 3.3% Swansea average weekly wage £680
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

If you take out Gower on the grounds that it is not representative of Swansea as a whole, you still get:
Swansea unemployment 3.85% Swansea average weekly wage £660
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

So not a lot in it, really. Presumably some people would argue that Carrow Road attracts a fair number of supporters from more affluent outlying villages, but on that basis we should add back in the stats for Gower. I visit Norwich quite often, and I can assure you that a lot of their supporters come from the city itself, and that people shouldn't be misled by the Golden Triangle - there are some really deprived parts of the city.

Not that deprivation is necessarily an indicator of football support. There are five constituencies in Liverpool proper; two of them are amongst the five most deprived constituencies in England, and nearby Knowsley is also in that list. If you've been to Anfield you'll know that their supporters are not all coming in from Hightown.

Swansea has a population of 250,000, Norwich 150,000. They used to get similar gates to what we are getting now, they turned that around. I ask again - how did they do it and what can we learn from their success?

Always used to wonder why the East Anglian clubs averaged so much more than us as it seemed as close a comparison as you could find in the EFL.

Put it down to 20+ years in the bottom two tiers and competing with rugby for those interested in sport. We’ve been at this level or higher for almost two decades now though and rugby crowds have fallen off a cliff.

I’m sure the new owners will have some ideas and it’ll be interesting to see how successful they are over the next few years.

 

[JackSomething]

Not that we still can't look at what they did and see if it would work for us, but aren't there literally no other professional sports teams in Norfolk? That can't hurt when it comes to getting people in the ground.

 

[Flash]

Another factor is that until very Recently Rugby was more popular than football as a sport in Wales. I think it’s still nearly a 50/50 split, And I know a lot of people that will still not watch football. It will have an impact that will not be seen as much in England.

 

[BendJack]

I wondered about that, so I looked up the official stats on the House of Commons constituency database.

Swansea West is indeed more deprived than either Norwich North or Norwich South by some way. The average unemployment rate in Swansea West is 4.8%, compared to 3.4% and 3.9% in the two Norwich constituencies respectively, and the average weekly wage is £613 (v £673/£651).

However, I was surprised to discover that both Neath & Swansea East and Gower constituencies have lower unemployment rates and higher weekly wages than either of the Norwich seats.

If you average the unemployment and weekly wage rates for the three Swansea seats and the two Norwich seats you get:
Swansea unemployment 3.3% Swansea average weekly wage £680
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

If you take out Gower on the grounds that it is not representative of Swansea as a whole, you still get:
Swansea unemployment 3.85% Swansea average weekly wage £660
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

So not a lot in it, really. Presumably some people would argue that Carrow Road attracts a fair number of supporters from more affluent outlying villages, but on that basis we should add back in the stats for Gower. I visit Norwich quite often, and I can assure you that a lot of their supporters come from the city itself, and that people shouldn't be misled by the Golden Triangle - there are some really deprived parts of the city.

Not that deprivation is necessarily an indicator of football support. There are five constituencies in Liverpool proper; two of them are amongst the five most deprived constituencies in England, and nearby Knowsley is also in that list. If you've been to Anfield you'll know that their supporters are not all coming in from Hightown.

Swansea has a population of 250,000, Norwich 150,000. They used to get similar gates to what we are getting now, they turned that around. I ask again - how did they do it and what can we learn from their success?

There's only one thing it could be! The answer to our problems then!... If Norwich can do it, at can we!

WE NEED OUR OWN DELIA SMITH!

Anyone know if Modric or Snoop are any good at cooking?

 

[cadleigh]

Another factor is that until very Recently Rugby was more popular than football as a sport in Wales. I think it’s still nearly a 50/50 split, And I know a lot of people that will still not watch football. It will have an impact that will not be seen as much in England.

Recently? There was a time when I was a teenager when we’d watch the Swans one week at home and the Whites the next week. That ended in the late 70s.

 

[cadleigh]

There's only one thing it could be! The answer to our problems then!... If Norwich can do it, at can we!

WE NEED OUR OWN DELIA CLARKE!

Anyone know if Modric or Snoop are any good at cooking?

Who is Delia Clarke?

 

[BendJack]

Who is Delia Clarke?

Well, that was embarrassing!! .... lol. No idea where the "Clarke" came from!

Corrected.

 

[Evanski]

There's only one thing it could be! The answer to our problems then!... If Norwich can do it, at can we!

WE NEED OUR OWN DELIA SMITH!

Anyone know if Modric or Snoop are any good at cooking?

I have no idea about Snoop’s culinary skills, but I can well imagine him getting, maybe not pissed, but ripped to the tits on something and yelling “Bring it, muthaf…” into a mic at half time.

 

[Dr. Winston]

Another factor is that until very Recently Rugby was more popular than football as a sport in Wales. I think it’s still nearly a 50/50 split, And I know a lot of people that will still not watch football. It will have an impact that will not be seen as much in England.

In terms of day to day interest it's not even close to a 50/50 split and hasn't been for about 20 years. People still turn out for a piss up on Six Nations days but have little or no interest in club rugby.

If you added the attendances of all the Swansea Rugby clubs (Dunvant, Glais etc) to the Ospreys gates I doubt it would be equal to half of a Swans crowd, and that's not even taking into account that most at an Ospreys game will be the same people who watch the local club sides.

 

[Professor]

I wondered about that, so I looked up the official stats on the House of Commons constituency database.

Swansea West is indeed more deprived than either Norwich North or Norwich South by some way. The average unemployment rate in Swansea West is 4.8%, compared to 3.4% and 3.9% in the two Norwich constituencies respectively, and the average weekly wage is £613 (v £673/£651).

However, I was surprised to discover that both Neath & Swansea East and Gower constituencies have lower unemployment rates and higher weekly wages than either of the Norwich seats.

If you average the unemployment and weekly wage rates for the three Swansea seats and the two Norwich seats you get:
Swansea unemployment 3.3% Swansea average weekly wage £680
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

If you take out Gower on the grounds that it is not representative of Swansea as a whole, you still get:
Swansea unemployment 3.85% Swansea average weekly wage £660
Norwich unemployment 3.65% Norwich average weekly wage £662

So not a lot in it, really. Presumably some people would argue that Carrow Road attracts a fair number of supporters from more affluent outlying villages, but on that basis we should add back in the stats for Gower. I visit Norwich quite often, and I can assure you that a lot of their supporters come from the city itself, and that people shouldn't be misled by the Golden Triangle - there are some really deprived parts of the city.

Not that deprivation is necessarily an indicator of football support. There are five constituencies in Liverpool proper; two of them are amongst the five most deprived constituencies in England, and nearby Knowsley is also in that list. If you've been to Anfield you'll know that their supporters are not all coming in from Hightown.

Swansea has a population of 250,000, Norwich 150,000. They used to get similar gates to what we are getting now, they turned that around. I ask again - how did they do it and what can we learn from their success?

Go to Norwich. There’s no comparison really. It’s booming whilst Swansea has not had that sort of investment. That said there’s far less distractions nearby.

 

[cadleigh]

Not that we still can't look at what they did and see if it would work for us, but aren't there literally no other professional sports teams in Norfolk? That can't hurt when it comes to getting people in the ground.

It’s a fair point, and other local factors no doubt play a part.

But the stats are impressive nevertheless. In 2003-4 they added around 4,000 extra seats to Carrow Road. In the decade before that, they averaged attendances of 16,823, and in the decade afterward, 25,305. And their attendances have stayed around that figure ever since, regardless of whether they are in the Premier League or the Championship. Some of that may be down to smart season ticket marketing, but whenever I've been there the ground seems full, even when the match is on the TV.

Basically the council and the club have done a really good job working together to make Carrow Road easy to get to, in an area with lots of restaurants and bars, while the club have been very adept at winning supporters' hearts and minds by making them feel like investors/stakeholders in the club. Absolute reverse of the Swansea story during the years when the Trust were being shafted and the ground was a pain to get to. I really hope the new owners can see that and have a strategy for engaging with the next generation of Swans supporters. And re-opening the Landore Halt would be a major step forward too.

 

[cadleigh]

Go to Norwich. There’s no comparison really. It’s booming whilst Swansea has not had that sort of investment. That said there’s far less distractions nearby.

I go to Norwich often. I agree that it is an attractive city, with pockets of wealth. However, those stats I quoted were not made up: the average person in Norwich is no better off or able to afford to go to football matches than the average person in Swansea. People depending on the food banks in Mile Cross or Lakenham would look at the Marina and SA1 and say that it's Swansea that's booming. (The Norfolk & Waveney Health Board has the highest proportion of people in the UK suffering malnourishment, along with Cornwall.)

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

Another factor is that until very Recently Rugby was more popular than football as a sport in Wales. I think it’s still nearly a 50/50 split, And I know a lot of people that will still not watch football. It will have an impact that will not be seen as much in England.

Tale as old as time. Doesn't make it true though.

Have a look at Sport Wales website, they have figures going back years. More people identify as playing pool in Wales than playing rugby.

As a participation and spectator sport, it lags behind football in Wales and always has.

The only reason rugby has such a high profile in Wales is because, entirely by accident, this small country of ours somehow for a short while in the 70s had the greatest team in the world in what is still a minority sport but was even smaller back then. The Welsh media understandably latched on to it, because it was success and it gave us a national reason to celebrate. And it went from there - became a nice excuse for a regular piss up, nice stick to whack the English with, etc.

Doesn't alter the facts though.

 

[Ringwood]

I think our comparison is closer to Hull City than Norwich. Both industrial port history, both had prem stints , both have rugby distractions , both working class demographics, both had questionable past owners and both have fluctuating attendances in the same ball park figure.