Civil Service Progression

[exiledclaseboy]

Also bear in mind that many public sector organisations already know who they want to employ and use the interview process to validate a predetermined preferred candidate.

That’s mostly not true and it can put people off applying. It’s an often repeated myth.

 

[Captain_Sham]

I was trying to establish what the process was, I’ve not worked in the civil service but I have worked in other public services and have experience of their systems.

6 topics - need 4 in every catagory to pass. 42 points available. You get one 3 and you fail.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

6 topics - need 4 in every catagory to pass. 42 points available. You get one 3 and you fail.

That’s part of the problem. You could get five sevens and one three and you’re automatically out, it’s daft and encourages people to do just enough to get the fours.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

Also you’ll find that one interviewer will score an example as (for example) a three and you could use exactly the same example in a different interview and it would score a five. It can be intensely frustrating but I don’t think that sort of thing is exclusive to the civil service. It’s more human nature and different perspectives.

 

[Captain_Sham]

That’s part of the problem. You could get five sevens and one three and you’re automatically out, it’s daft and encourages people to do just enough to get the fours.

There are a group of people who tried two/three times and gave up. They are very knowledgeable capable people but they have been defeated by the system. The first time I applied I was training a new starter who had literally just finished induction. They got progression and I didnt. It is so wierd.

 

[Captain_Sham]

Also you’ll find that one interviewer will score an example as (for example) a three and you could use exactly the same example in a different interview and it would score a five. It can be intensely frustrating but I don’t think that sort of thing is exclusive to the civil service. It’s more human nature and different perspectives.

Yes. You have to sell it.

 

[Jack2jack]

Interview matrices is all you need to know. Understand what they need to hear and you'll tick all the boxes, its not necessarily what you know about the job.
On a side note if they've got someone lined up, your fvcked, I've seen it happen.
Hope you succeed, good luck.

 

[MajorR]

That’s

6 topics - need 4 in every catagory to pass. 42 points available. You get one 3 and you fail.

Right - that’s what I needed to know.
I assume you’ve seen this?

Success Profiles: Civil Service behaviours

www.gov.uk

The way I would do this is I’d break down the job description and role profile in to chunks so I could try and anticipate the questions. I would then condense the behaviours as much as possible so that each aspect of them was included in a couple of lines which I’d then learn so I could “regurgitate” them during an interview.

Taking the below for example

Developing self and others​

Examples of developing yourself and others at HEO and SEO grades or equivalent are when you:

• identify capability gaps for yourself and your team
• ensure development objectives are set and achieved to address any gaps and enable delivery of current and future work
• take time to coach, mentor and develop other colleagues to support succession planning
• promote inclusiveness by respecting different personal needs in the team and use these to develop others
• reflect on your own work, continuously seek and act on feedback to improve own and team’s performance

Put some meat on the bones, talk about reflecting on your performance and that of the team, Myers Briggs type exercises to understand your personality type, strengths and weaknesses, PDR - link objectives to development.
Be a role model, mentor people, shadowing others, delegate work on a development basis, give feedback, ask for feedback, coach, act as a tutors, encourage others to act as mentors etc.
then do the same for the team, ask people what they want, use their skills to improve others.

Once you have done that for this area, move on to the next.

The more you talk the more you score, talk in detail so you maximise scoring opportunities.

Try and anticipate questions and build the answer around the above and your version of the condensed behaviours.

It’s a bit of a game, it’s just about knowing how to play it.

You have the experience and examples to give from your work or personal life, it’s then about padding it out with what they want to hear as I’ve outlined above.

 

[Captain_Sham]

That’s

Right - that’s what I needed to know.
I assume you’ve seen this?

Success Profiles: Civil Service behaviours

www.gov.uk

The way I would do this is I’d break down the job description and role profile in to chunks so I could try and anticipate the questions. I would then condense the behaviours as much as possible so that each aspect of them was included in a couple of lines which I’d then learn so I could “regurgitate” them during an interview.

Taking the below for example

Developing self and others​

Examples of developing yourself and others at HEO and SEO grades or equivalent are when you:

• identify capability gaps for yourself and your team
• ensure development objectives are set and achieved to address any gaps and enable delivery of current and future work
• take time to coach, mentor and develop other colleagues to support succession planning
• promote inclusiveness by respecting different personal needs in the team and use these to develop others
• reflect on your own work, continuously seek and act on feedback to improve own and team’s performance

Put some meat on the bones, talk about reflecting on your performance and that of the team, Myers Briggs type exercises to understand your personality type, strengths and weaknesses, PDR - link objectives to development.
Be a role model, mentor people, shadowing others, delegate work on a development basis, give feedback, ask for feedback, coach, act as a tutors, encourage others to act as mentors etc.
then do the same for the team, ask people what they want, use their skills to improve others.

Once you have done that for this area, move on to the next.

The more you talk the more you score, talk in detail so you maximise scoring opportunities.

Try and anticipate questions and build the answer around the above and your version of the condensed behaviours.

I have looked at nothing else for 6 weeks. I understand th eprocess fully, and as you can see by my scores, I am on the verge of passing. Im looking for the stuff in between the cracks. The sort of thing Andrew has been kind enough to share.( I will be honest he was one of the ones I was hoping to draw in) I do however appreciate that you are trying to help, so thank you for that.

 

[MajorR]

I have looked at nothing else for 6 weeks. I understand th eprocess fully, and as you can see by my scores, I am on the verge of passing. Im looking for the stuff in between the cracks. The sort of thing Andrew has been kind enough to share.( I will be honest he was one of the ones I was hoping to draw in) I do however appreciate that you are trying to help, so thank you for that.

You aren’t far off, but the area where you’ve scored the 3s is holding you back. You need to go back over them and pad them out. Do you know which areas you scored 3 and what the questions were about?

 

[Skippyjack]

I'm sitting here and reading that the right people got the job.. the country is genuinely absolutely f*cked, because they're employing f*cking alcoholics who are about as bright as an eclipse.. Darran is correct, I'm the only one who's talking sense

 

[Captain_Sham]

You aren’t far off, but the area where you’ve scored the 3s is holding you back. You need to go back over them and pad them out. Do you know which areas you scored 3 and what the questions were about?

I understand all of this. As I have said there is a feedback session where they tell me what needs to improve. I dont really need someone point out that I need to score higher than a 3 on a pass mark of 4. I had worked that out. Im starting to sound like an a$$hole now. I dont know what I expected to be honest.These threads take on a life of their own dont they.(And heres skippy the bush kangaroo right on cue) Like I said, I appreciate your trying to help.

 

[Itchysphincter]

Hello. Im posting this as I know some of my esteemed co-posters on here have been civil servants far longer than I. I have been on somewhat of a journey since I started my new career.I joined for 3months 8 years ago. As time has gone by I started to feel at home.I had the idea why not try out for progression. A little extra money cant hurt. I expected, given my extensive career in constrution project management, that I would sail through the process. I now find myself having failed the process for a second time. I have been close both times, but it is the most perplexing experience I have ever been part of. People used to ring me and ask to me to come work for them. Now I have to "tell me about a time..." Its frankly bizzarre. My question is, do any of my civil servant compadres have any tips for me. The more times I fail the more determined I am getting. Feel free to PM rather if you dont feel comfortable posting in here. I availed myself of all; available online resources. Thats not what I mean. What I mean is any obervations over the years about what helped you advance? Thanks in advance.

I joined the civil service in my early twenties, it was never supposed to be a career as I had other plans but I stayed for three and a half year or so and enjoyed it, mainly because of the people. It was clear that progression was there for some and not for others - and I was clearly one of the others as most were.

An example was when a board came up and a few of us went for it. I fell at the first hurdle but a useless 55 year old bloke who had up until recently been a HEO before being retired with a six figure payout and then rejoining as a lowly AA and couldn’t even open a letter without guidance got through the board and gained an immediate promotion.

It was obvious to me early on how it was going to be and I was lucky I enjoyed it anyway for what it was, but like any big institution it’s institutionalised and fucked with lifers being completely out of touch with the real world out there.

 

[Captain_Sham]

I joined the civil service in my early twenties, it was never supposed to be a career as I had other plans but I stayed for three and a half year or so and enjoyed it, mainly because of the people. It was clear that progression was there for some and not for others - and I was clearly one of the others as most were.

An example was when a board came up and a few of us went for it. I fell at the first hurdle but a useless 55 year old bloke who had up until recently been a HEO before being retired with a six figure payout and then rejoining as a lowly AA and couldn’t even open a letter without guidance got through the board and gained an immediate promotion.

It was obvious to me early on how it was going to be and I was lucky I enjoyed it anyway for what it was, but like any big institution it’s institutionalised and fucked with lifers being completely out of touch with the real world out there.

Thanks. Im almost 60. Progression wont really serve any purpose and I dont need the money. Its just such a bizzarre process.Im trying to figure it out.

 

[Skippyjack]

I understand all of this. As I have said there is a feedback session where they tell me what needs to improve. I dont really need someone point out that I need to score higher than a 3 on a pass mark of 4. I had worked that out. Im starting to sound like an a$$hole now. I dont know what I expected to be honest.These threads take on a life of their own dont they.(And heres skippy the bush kangaroo right on cue) Like I said, I appreciate your trying to help.

You're not an alcoholic anymore, you should sail into the job.. do you know how many alcoholics jumped into the fountain naked after having a few down wind street thinking they're invincible or had a mental premonition to achieve something, this is what alcohol does to the brain.. it's proven, people in charge have wine addictions mainly.. this is a genuine issue of the countries ills..