2 wins in 14 games

[TheGoodDoctor]

You're wrong. Very very wrong.......

We paid a lot of loan fees for all of those players.

Nope, we didn’t.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/06/28/tammy-abraham-sign-50k-a-week-chelsea-contract-joining-swansea/

“ It is believed Chelsea are not receiving a loan fee for Abraham because their priority was to find the best club for his development. ”

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1225208/Liverpool-transfer-news-Rhian-Brewster-completes-loan-move-Swansea

“ Liverpool are reportedly not receiving a loan fee for the 19-year-old however it’s believed the agreement includes wage recovery and non-playing penalties.”

Gallagher and Guehi were also free.

Gibbs White was the only one in your list we paid for, which wasn’t very much, and was largely refunded when they called him back early.

 

[TheGoodDoctor]

Unlike yourself, the vast majority of what I state is just my opinion. You're making factual statements that some loans had no fees attached, so the onus would be on you to back that up.

Saying something is factual without any evidence would be closer to trolling than someone querying it to me, but each to their own.

So you have nothing to back up the opposite? And no media reports covering the transfers to shadow what you allude to?

I could have guessed that.

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

Well fair play, I'll give that round to the good doctor.

 

[Risc]

You're wrong. Very very wrong.......

We paid a lot of loan fees for all of those players.

I read somewhere we didn’t for Brewster, but not having it for the others. Gallagher, Guehi second year, Gibbs white, all expensive imo.

 

[TheGoodDoctor]

Well fair play, I'll give that round to the good doctor.

Not difficult.

It’s pretty common knowledge that Premier League youth prospects are free loans with playing provisos.

 

[TheGoodDoctor]

I read somewhere we didn’t for Brewster, but not having it for the others. Gallagher, Guehi second year, Gibbs white, all expensive imo.

There was no “Guehi second year”.

It was an 18 month loan. It’s all about development with these prospects.

They aren’t going to limit their options of who can evolve their player by charging a measly fee.

“But the intention is for Guehi, 19, to spend the rest of this campaign and whole of next in Wales and continue his development with regular football.

Chelsea hope the long-term loan will accelerate Guehi’s development and he will return ready to be a Chelsea regular.”

 

[Risc]

Not difficult.

It’s pretty common knowledge that Premier League youth prospects are free loans with playing provisos.

Gelhartd is costing Sunderland a fortune. Premier league clubs don’t give their best young players away for free, even if it’s temporary.

 

[Risc]

There was no “Guehi second year”.

It was an 18 month loan. It’s all about development with these prospects.

They aren’t going to limit their options of who can evolve their player by charging a measly fee.

“But the intention is for Guehi, 19, to spend the rest of this campaign and whole of next in Wales and continue his development with regular football.

Chelsea hope the long-term loan will accelerate Guehi’s development and he will return ready to be a Chelsea regular.”

I seem to recall a few news outlets claiming that, but officially it was a 6 month deal originally, then full season loan year after.

 

[Jacket]

Regardless of the argument, that is a very stupid title when our form could also be described as 2 wins in last 4 league games, or 2 wins in 3 before Saturday. Form is generally worked out by looking at the last five or six games, both of which would give you only two defeats. In conclusion, you should have written this before 7.45 on the 30th of December, because it seems from what I can see that you're ignoring what on the face of it could be viewed as an upturn in form, particularly when you consider that one of the two defeats we've suffered recently was against the runaway league leaders.

 

[TheGoodDoctor]

It was an 18 month loan with a break option after the first 6 months.

Meaning they could recall or we could send back, but it was one continuous deal.

“ The agreement is understood to include a break clause at the end of the season.”

 

[Risc]

It was an 18 month loan with a break option after the first 6 months.

Meaning they could recall or we could send back, but it was one continuous deal.

“ The agreement is understood to include a break clause at the end of the season.”

<<Marc Guehi is set to rejoin Swansea City for the duration of the 2020/21 campaign.

The versatile defender signed on an initial six-month loan deal from Chelsea in January and excelled - particularly after lockdown - during his time at the Liberty Stadium.>>

WalesOnline and the Swansea city official website.

 

[TheGoodDoctor]

They reported it as 6 months because the second year was not guaranteed, they both had to agree to it. But it was an 18 month loan.

All the news outlets didn’t just get lucky and predict he would be with us for 18 months. The agreement was 18 months, 6 months intially and a further 12 if both were still happy with the arrangement.

We both were, so the 12 month extension was activated.

 

[Risc]

They reported it as 6 months because the second year was not guaranteed, they both had to agree to it. But it was an 18 month loan.

All the news outlets didn’t just get lucky and predict he would be with us for 18 months. The agreement was 18 months, 6 months intially and a further 12 if both were still happy with the arrangement.

We both were, so the 12 month extension was activated.

Well our budget has been cut since Potter and Martin, so the money was going somewhere.

"I would say our wage budget is probably in the range of bottom third in the Championship. Being honest, that's about where we are," Winter added.
"Some of the ones at the top of the division are the ones that have been relegated and are in first year parachute [payments] or second year parachute [payments].
"We are second year out of parachute so this is the second season that we don't have any Premier League parachute money. That means we have had to cut our cloth over time.
"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out - you go from £40m-odd parachute to £30m-odd parachute down to £15m parachute and then down to EFL distributions, which are very different.


We aren’t spending more than we did with parachute payments. Downes was bought and sold with Martin and he’s been given a lump sum to bring darling in with, who will also go as a profit imo, other than that it’s been a wage slashing exercise for Russ and Marsh.

 

[TheGoodDoctor]

Well our budget has been cut since Potter and Martin, so the money was going somewhere.

"I would say our wage budget is probably in the range of bottom third in the Championship. Being honest, that's about where we are," Winter added.
"Some of the ones at the top of the division are the ones that have been relegated and are in first year parachute [payments] or second year parachute [payments].
"We are second year out of parachute so this is the second season that we don't have any Premier League parachute money. That means we have had to cut our cloth over time.
"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out - you go from £40m-odd parachute to £30m-odd parachute down to £15m parachute and then down to EFL distributions, which are very different.


We aren’t spending more than we did with parachute payments. Downes was bought and sold with Martin and he’s been given a lump sum to bring darling in with, who will also go as a profit imo, other than that it’s been a wage slashing exercise for Russ and Marsh.

But spend is relative isn’t it.

If by some quirk of fate Bony found a clause in his contract that if he has not found another club in x amount of years then he can come back on 100k a week, will that spend put us in a better or worse position?

I think we can both agree that paying an extra £5m in salary for someone to not play would be a horrendous outcome.

That’s what Cooper had to put up with, and that’s what the parachute money was there to cover. But it meant there was very little in the pot for him to actually shape his squad.

But the main question of course is where we are relative to the rest of the league. I asked a question earlier:

Who in the bottom 8 (bottom 8 salary budgets, not League position) has the ability to pay wages we do to the likes of Piroe, Obafemi, Allen, Naughton, Ntcham, Grimes, Manning, Fisher and Darling.

If you can name a club that would be able to, who are the equivalent players they are paying this amount to.

The answer is there is nobody. We would be the envy of anyone in the bottom 8 of budgets in both transfer fees and salary.

We would near the top 8 when all metrics are examined. Fees spent, squad value, salary budget - this would all be comfortably in the top 10, some aspects significantly higher.

 

[Risc]

But spend is relative isn’t it.

If by some quirk of fate Bony found a clause in his contract that if he has not found another club in x amount of years then he can come back on 100k a week, will that spend put us in a better or worse position?

I think we can both agree that paying an extra £5m in salary for someone to not play would be a horrendous outcome.

That’s what Cooper had to put up with, and that’s what the parachute money was there to cover. But it meant there was very little in the pot for him to actually shape his squad.

But the main question of course is where we are relative to the rest of the league. I asked a question earlier:

Who in the bottom 8 (bottom 8 salary budgets, not League position) has the ability to pay wages we do to the likes of Piroe, Obafemi, Allen, Naughton, Ntcham, Grimes, Manning, Fisher and Darling.

If you can name a club that would be able to, who are the equivalent players they are paying this amount to.

The answer is there is nobody. We would be the envy of anyone in the bottom 8 of budgets in both transfer fees and salary.

We would near the top 8 when all metrics are examined. Fees spent, squad value, salary budget - this would all be comfortably in the top 10, some aspects significantly higher.

Yeah I agree with that to be honest and you make valid points, although Naughton signed new contract with reduced terms, Allen also took significant pay cut to sign here. Manning has been offered reduced terms, Fisher won’t be on a lot I doubt, but I agree no other club would get near ntcham and grimes on the screw they are on here.