Civil Service Progression

[Pentyrchjack]

I feel for you. I’ve spent most of my working life effectively self-employed and it’s been tough, and not without sacrifice and understanding from my family, but I’ve had a wonderful career filled with experiences I could never of dreamt of or funded on my own, and I’ve worked for some of the biggest organisations in my sector so I do have experience of how these machines work from inside and outside.

That said, I’m approaching 50 now and being potentially mortgage free in the next 18 months or so I would consider parting with my left testicle to rejoin the civil service. They probably wouldn’t have me though but if they did I wouldn’t expect progression, and I’d end up falling out with them because of all the silly systems and feathering of nests. I’ve been told I’m practically unemployable and I probably best accept it.

Good luck and best wishes.

It’s not but there you go. Even wrong opinions are earnestly held.

I can assure you that it happens all the time for SCS and Public Appointments.

You may be too junior to notice.

 

[JackSomething]

I can assure you that it happens all the time for SCS and Public Appointments.

You may be too junior to notice.

This wins snarkiest comment on the internet today...

 

[Itchysphincter]

Sounds absolutely horrific to me chaps. There’s no way I’d put myself through that process if I was in that sector. Doesn’t sound like cricket at all.

The problem you have is that a lot of people have no experience of the private sector and don’t know just how competitive it is out there and how well protected they are. People can say poor candidates complain but those who say that don’t really have any other experience, and those that do have experience often promote from he old boys club. I’m not talking from a position of bitterness but I am talking from a position of experience as someone who hasn’t been part of the club, then has been part of the club, and who made the choice to go it alone.

 

[Neath_Jack]

The problem you have is that a lot of people have no experience of the private sector and don’t know just how competitive it is out there and how well protected they are. People can say poor candidates complain but those who say that don’t really have any other experience, and those that do have experience often promote from he old boys club. I’m not talking from a position of bitterness but I am talking from a position of experience as someone who hasn’t been part of the club, then has been part of the club, and who made the choice to go it alone.

Sounds horrible.

I’ve seen plenty of people with us who are brilliant at their job but terrible at interviews. Now in my company that person would get the job on their known track record as opposed to not getting the job because the interview didn’t go well. Which is the correct way in my opinion.

 

[Cooperman]

Sounds horrible.

I’ve seen plenty of people with us who are brilliant at their job but terrible at interviews. Now in my company that person would get the job on their known track record as opposed to not getting the job because the interview didn’t go well. Which is the correct way in my opinion.

That’s how we generally play it. We use the ‘interview’ as means of ensuring that the candidate is willing to accept and understanding of the need to change job description. The sorting and selection of the candidates is generally done beforehand and based on historical performance against goals, and assessment of personal attributes. The interview also goes some way to ensuring that nobody can claim it to have been done unfairly.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

Hello. Im posting this as I know some of my esteemed co-posters on here have been civil servants far longer than I. I have been on somewhat of a journey since I started my new career.I joined for 3months 8 years ago. As time has gone by I started to feel at home.I had the idea why not try out for progression. A little extra money cant hurt. I expected, given my extensive career in constrution project management, that I would sail through the process. I now find myself having failed the process for a second time. I have been close both times, but it is the most perplexing experience I have ever been part of. People used to ring me and ask to me to come work for them. Now I have to "tell me about a time..." Its frankly bizzarre. My question is, do any of my civil servant compadres have any tips for me. The more times I fail the more determined I am getting. Feel free to PM rather if you dont feel comfortable posting in here. I availed myself of all; available online resources. Thats not what I mean. What I mean is any obervations over the years about what helped you advance? Thanks in advance.

You've just got to stick at it. And don't beat yourself up, or lose heart. Keep chucking forms in and make them the best they can be, but sometimes you just have to accept you're in the lap of the gods a bit.

I've applied for loads of jobs in the past and used the same competency examples on many forms, maybe tailored slightly for the specifics but essentially the same gist, and the scores I have received for those examples have varied wildly - from 7s (top score you can get) to 3s or 4s. Work that one out. It can be a bit of a lottery sometimes.

Thankfully at interview they do tend to ask more of a variety of different question types they ask these days - hypotheticals, like "what would you do in this scenario?", etc. Be ready for those, and don't try to answer them parrot fashion like you would a "tell me about a time when..." question. That's a bit of a no-no and they will pull you up on it.

Ultimately, it all comes down to just one or two people's perception of what they read on a form or in an interview situation, there isn't really a lot of rhyme nor reason to it. Just keep getting back on the horse. Seek help/advice. Take it if offered. You sound capable - I'm sure you'll crack it eventually.

Good luck

 

[Itchysphincter]

Sounds horrible.

I’ve seen plenty of people with us who are brilliant at their job but terrible at interviews. Now in my company that person would get the job on their known track record as opposed to not getting the job because the interview didn’t go well. Which is the correct way in my opinion.

Yeah, I’ve seen terrible people hired because their CV is good and they pass boards by interviewing like a charm, and they’ve turned out to be useless and often hideous personalities.

I’ve argued against candidates that HR have tried to impose on me as, and hired from instinct and I stand by it. There are diamonds in the rough and the skill is identifying them. No one can be right all the time but box ticking exercises or or using XG type metrics won’t deliver you the best candidate.

 

[JackSomething]

Sounds horrible.

I’ve seen plenty of people with us who are brilliant at their job but terrible at interviews. Now in my company that person would get the job on their known track record as opposed to not getting the job because the interview didn’t go well. Which is the correct way in my opinion.

I would tend to agree as my experience is that everything has to go on who scores highest in the interview and I see the flaws in that.

However, I can see the other side of the coin. If we were allowed in the public sector to appoint whoever we wanted to a role, those complaining of favouritism, cronyism and nepotism would have a point. We all know managers who would appoint their favourites irrespective of talent.

A middle ground would be best where interview performance is taken into account, but you could also evidence the job performance of an internal applicant and use that as justification to appoint them.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

There used to be a performance management system a part of which involved the manager having to indicate whether or not someone was suitable for promotion to the next grade. But they binned that off years ago and it was fairly worthless anyway cos most managers would tick the “suitable for promotion” box often just to avoid having the difficult conversations around why they were saying not suitable.