And so we move on but Cooper’s departure leaves questions

[Vetchonian]

Great article Phil, and as one who questioned the breaking news post of yours at the weekend again please accept my apologies.

You highlight salient points which will be lost as many "rejoice" in Coopers deaprture.
What was so bad that the manager was happy to walk away with no job?
Why did it take so long to sort the deal? Many have said the club wanted him gone all summer if this was the case why ask for compensation?
I expect the Yanks who have previous with Gylfi would have stood fast on this .....its an American trait or where was plan B ie the "mutual consent" agreement ready to be discussed as soon as it was known he hadnt landed an other job?
Why not put him on garden leave immediately instead of getting him to lead the pre-season I mean we will have no manager on Saturday....Tate and O leary could have done things at a push.
It sounds as though Kaplan is trying ot be too hands on...I do suspect sending over Morris and Arriola did not help when Cooper was aking for a "proper" no9 and I am sure he was none to happy at being exploited financially.....
As you say we will never know all the answers but it throws up more questions about the club and are we really as stable as many of us had started to hope and believe.

I suppose they probably reached a place where both parties felt things had come to a natural end. Cooper probably didn't think that he would improve on last season given the weaker squad. Better for him to leave on a high than sacked by Christmas with us in 15th place. From our perspective, better that we get someone in now with a couple of weeks of pre-season left and a month+ of transfer window. Probably also allowed us to tie up the compensation package more favourably given the fact that Cooper wanted to leave, as opposed to us sacking him. Sounds like its the most 'mutual consent' departure in the history of mutual consent.

Whilst the decision may have been made a couple of weeks ago, I doubt the finer details were all agreed until yesterday. Everything over the last couple of weeks will have been playing to the gallery from both sides, especially Cooper who is taking a professional risk walking out of a decent job and who can't be seen to be throwing his toys out of the pram. There is no way that an employee so high up in a multi million pound business walks away without high levels of negotiation.

I don't think Cooper was ever top of the lists of Palace and Fulham. Both have made decent appointments. Vieira and Silva hardly scream "second choice behind Cooper" to me. I doubt we'd have held firm on compensation if push had come to shove and I doubt Palace would have baulked at the £4.5m had they felt he was the right man for the job.

Not sure why you think Cooper was exploited financially. He came from nowhere to sign a contract with us. He agreed the salary, the bonus and the length of the contract. Not sure how the club can be criticised for giving an unproven manager a less lucrative contract, especially if they have tried to open up discussions about a new one (though I am sceptical of that). There is no obligation on them to give him a better contract just because he did relatively well. They'd have only given him a better contract if they'd been particularly keen to tie him down - doesn't look like they were.

For what its worth, I've thought we have recruited fairly sensibly over the last 12 months or so and I think he was quite well backed. We'd have all liked an established goal scorer but they aren't easy to come by cheaply so it isn't unreasonable of us to take punts on fairly cheap prospects like Lowe, Whittaker, Piroe, Joseph and hope a couple come good. Morris looked handy before he got injured and Ariola should have added more than he did. Hourihane probably didn't come cheap and looked a superb loan signing on paper. All the loanees he wanted from his time as England manager would also have undoubtedly cost money.

It is interesting that you like many say we have a weaker squad this season Why? We have lost Ayew yes but added 2 attacking players Piroe and Joseph so in theory we have added some depth and options, Woodman is regarded as no mean loss by many fans with Benda seen to be a better option, we have added Walsh in midfield and have Brandon Cooper available along with Cabango,Bennett and Lati in the centre backs....we may be suspect at RB with Connor being injured but im not really sure how we can say we are weaker just because Ayew is gone.
Yes he was often our nmain goal outlet butLowe should have scored more....Ayew was often too selfish and stopped us scoring more and this season it seems we have a fit Cullen and Whittaker appears to have bulked up.
So really apart form Ayew im not so sure we are that much weaker of course it depends on what other departures there may be

 

[Ringwood Jack]

I suppose they probably reached a place where both parties felt things had come to a natural end. Cooper probably didn't think that he would improve on last season given the weaker squad. Better for him to leave on a high than sacked by Christmas with us in 15th place. From our perspective, better that we get someone in now with a couple of weeks of pre-season left and a month+ of transfer window. Probably also allowed us to tie up the compensation package more favourably given the fact that Cooper wanted to leave, as opposed to us sacking him. Sounds like its the most 'mutual consent' departure in the history of mutual consent.

Whilst the decision may have been made a couple of weeks ago, I doubt the finer details were all agreed until yesterday. Everything over the last couple of weeks will have been playing to the gallery from both sides, especially Cooper who is taking a professional risk walking out of a decent job and who can't be seen to be throwing his toys out of the pram. There is no way that an employee so high up in a multi million pound business walks away without high levels of negotiation.

I don't think Cooper was ever top of the lists of Palace and Fulham. Both have made decent appointments. Vieira and Silva hardly scream "second choice behind Cooper" to me. I doubt we'd have held firm on compensation if push had come to shove and I doubt Palace would have baulked at the £4.5m had they felt he was the right man for the job.

Not sure why you think Cooper was exploited financially. He came from nowhere to sign a contract with us. He agreed the salary, the bonus and the length of the contract. Not sure how the club can be criticised for giving an unproven manager a less lucrative contract, especially if they have tried to open up discussions about a new one (though I am sceptical of that). There is no obligation on them to give him a better contract just because he did relatively well. They'd have only given him a better contract if they'd been particularly keen to tie him down - doesn't look like they were.

For what its worth, I've thought we have recruited fairly sensibly over the last 12 months or so and I think he was quite well backed. We'd have all liked an established goal scorer but they aren't easy to come by cheaply so it isn't unreasonable of us to take punts on fairly cheap prospects like Lowe, Whittaker, Piroe, Joseph and hope a couple come good. Morris looked handy before he got injured and Ariola should have added more than he did. Hourihane probably didn't come cheap and looked a superb loan signing on paper. All the loanees he wanted from his time as England manager would also have undoubtedly cost money.

It is interesting that you like many say we have a weaker squad this season Why? We have lost Ayew yes but added 2 attacking players Piroe and Joseph so in theory we have added some depth and options, Woodman is regarded as no mean loss by many fans with Benda seen to be a better option, we have added Walsh in midfield and have Brandon Cooper available along with Cabango,Bennett and Lati in the centre backs....we may be suspect at RB with Connor being injured but im not really sure how we can say we are weaker just because Ayew is gone.
Yes he was often our nmain goal outlet butLowe should have scored more....Ayew was often too selfish and stopped us scoring more and this season it seems we have a fit Cullen and Whittaker appears to have bulked up.
So really apart form Ayew im not so sure we are that much weaker of course it depends on what other departures there may be

Incredible Guehi doesn't get a mention !... he will be a big miss

 

[Risc]

I suppose they probably reached a place where both parties felt things had come to a natural end. Cooper probably didn't think that he would improve on last season given the weaker squad. Better for him to leave on a high than sacked by Christmas with us in 15th place. From our perspective, better that we get someone in now with a couple of weeks of pre-season left and a month+ of transfer window. Probably also allowed us to tie up the compensation package more favourably given the fact that Cooper wanted to leave, as opposed to us sacking him. Sounds like its the most 'mutual consent' departure in the history of mutual consent.

Whilst the decision may have been made a couple of weeks ago, I doubt the finer details were all agreed until yesterday. Everything over the last couple of weeks will have been playing to the gallery from both sides, especially Cooper who is taking a professional risk walking out of a decent job and who can't be seen to be throwing his toys out of the pram. There is no way that an employee so high up in a multi million pound business walks away without high levels of negotiation.

I don't think Cooper was ever top of the lists of Palace and Fulham. Both have made decent appointments. Vieira and Silva hardly scream "second choice behind Cooper" to me. I doubt we'd have held firm on compensation if push had come to shove and I doubt Palace would have baulked at the £4.5m had they felt he was the right man for the job.

Not sure why you think Cooper was exploited financially. He came from nowhere to sign a contract with us. He agreed the salary, the bonus and the length of the contract. Not sure how the club can be criticised for giving an unproven manager a less lucrative contract, especially if they have tried to open up discussions about a new one (though I am sceptical of that). There is no obligation on them to give him a better contract just because he did relatively well. They'd have only given him a better contract if they'd been particularly keen to tie him down - doesn't look like they were.

For what its worth, I've thought we have recruited fairly sensibly over the last 12 months or so and I think he was quite well backed. We'd have all liked an established goal scorer but they aren't easy to come by cheaply so it isn't unreasonable of us to take punts on fairly cheap prospects like Lowe, Whittaker, Piroe, Joseph and hope a couple come good. Morris looked handy before he got injured and Ariola should have added more than he did. Hourihane probably didn't come cheap and looked a superb loan signing on paper. All the loanees he wanted from his time as England manager would also have undoubtedly cost money.

It is interesting that you like many say we have a weaker squad this season Why? We have lost Ayew yes but added 2 attacking players Piroe and Joseph so in theory we have added some depth and options, Woodman is regarded as no mean loss by many fans with Benda seen to be a better option, we have added Walsh in midfield and have Brandon Cooper available along with Cabango,Bennett and Lati in the centre backs....we may be suspect at RB with Connor being injured but im not really sure how we can say we are weaker just because Ayew is gone.
Yes he was often our nmain goal outlet butLowe should have scored more....Ayew was often too selfish and stopped us scoring more and this season it seems we have a fit Cullen and Whittaker appears to have bulked up.
So really apart form Ayew im not so sure we are that much weaker of course it depends on what other departures there may be

Yes we have lost Ayew, who masked plenty of Cooper’s inefficiencies. We are also set to lose our skipper. Any squad without £20m Guehi in championship is obviously weaker aswell, but full credit to Cooper for being able to bring him here.

That seems to me a post of someone who is ready to jump on the new Manager at first opportunity using pro Cooper rubbish.

 

[ARQS]

It is interesting that you like many say we have a weaker squad this season Why? We have lost Ayew yes but added 2 attacking players Piroe and Joseph so in theory we have added some depth and options, Woodman is regarded as no mean loss by many fans with Benda seen to be a better option, we have added Walsh in midfield and have Brandon Cooper available along with Cabango,Bennett and Lati in the centre backs....we may be suspect at RB with Connor being injured but im not really sure how we can say we are weaker just because Ayew is gone.
Yes he was often our nmain goal outlet butLowe should have scored more....Ayew was often too selfish and stopped us scoring more and this season it seems we have a fit Cullen and Whittaker appears to have bulked up.
So really apart form Ayew im not so sure we are that much weaker of course it depends on what other departures there may be

I do think our squad is better than a lot of people make out, however nobody has really seen enough of these players to know whether they are better than what we had. Presumably if Cooper thought he was sitting on some gold, he'd have stuck around.

As things stand, we've lost a proven good (although nothing special) keeper at this level, one of the best CBs in the division last season and a talisman in Ayew... potentially with our captain out the door next, as well as Roberts.

If we lose Guehi, Ayew, Roberts, Grimes and Woodman then thats 5 of our best/most proven players gone and not replaced with anyone with any sort of proven track record. We are left with players with potential and whilst that's exciting and the best we can hope for, it can go either way.

 

[Vetchonian]

It is interesting that you like many say we have a weaker squad this season Why? We have lost Ayew yes but added 2 attacking players Piroe and Joseph so in theory we have added some depth and options, Woodman is regarded as no mean loss by many fans with Benda seen to be a better option, we have added Walsh in midfield and have Brandon Cooper available along with Cabango,Bennett and Lati in the centre backs....we may be suspect at RB with Connor being injured but im not really sure how we can say we are weaker just because Ayew is gone.
Yes he was often our nmain goal outlet butLowe should have scored more....Ayew was often too selfish and stopped us scoring more and this season it seems we have a fit Cullen and Whittaker appears to have bulked up.
So really apart form Ayew im not so sure we are that much weaker of course it depends on what other departures there may be

Yes we have lost Ayew, who masked plenty of Cooper’s inefficiencies. We are also set to lose our skipper. Any squad without £20m Guehi in championship is obviously weaker aswell, but full credit to Cooper for being able to bring him here.

That seems to me a post of someone who is ready to jump on the new Manager at first opportunity using pro Cooper rubbish.

No I wont be jumping on the new manager at first opportunity spouting pro cooper rubbish unlike those who rubbished Cooper spouting pro Potter rubbish and still do so....Potters teams were booed off as early as October 2018 it took until Decemebr for the boos for Cooper.
There is a saying "there is none so blind as those than cannot see".....its very true.

Yes losing Geuhi is a blow and why is he worth £20M?..he was being slated in his initial appearances yet shrewd Cooper worked how to best use him and give him confidence so the same could be said of Coopers first season when Dan James and Mcburnie had gone at the beginning and then Baston went too
Or Coopers Second season when Van Der Hoorne and then Rodon left

Im not saying Cooper was a manager in the league or mould of Roberto or Brendan but he got results which is what he was tasked to do and at times there was some nice football played but people convinced themseleves of otherwise....and Im not saying it was in all of every game but there was attacking intent...and yes the final was a let down ...but had the penealty not occured who knows what coulod have happened...
You say Ayew masked Coopers inefficiencies yet he wasnt on the pitch when we beat Forest in the cup.....He did get us results when it looked like we were coming away with nothing though....but then that should be expected....looking at the squad in reality we exceeded waht most of us expected and predicted at the start of the season.

Cooper has gone we will soon have a new man at the helm and he will get my support...but he has to getr results I wont put up with "performances" but no result.....I like to be entertained but I hate the feeling of walking away from the ground having lost...even when we have looked easy on the eye but failed to get the better of the opposition.

 

[Vetchonian]

It is interesting that you like many say we have a weaker squad this season Why? We have lost Ayew yes but added 2 attacking players Piroe and Joseph so in theory we have added some depth and options, Woodman is regarded as no mean loss by many fans with Benda seen to be a better option, we have added Walsh in midfield and have Brandon Cooper available along with Cabango,Bennett and Lati in the centre backs....we may be suspect at RB with Connor being injured but im not really sure how we can say we are weaker just because Ayew is gone.
Yes he was often our nmain goal outlet butLowe should have scored more....Ayew was often too selfish and stopped us scoring more and this season it seems we have a fit Cullen and Whittaker appears to have bulked up.
So really apart form Ayew im not so sure we are that much weaker of course it depends on what other departures there may be

Incredible Guehi doesn't get a mention !... he will be a big miss

We all know he will be amiss but we have the likes of Brandon Cooper to come in....he is well rated no reason why he cant beocme another Guehi....like ROdon and Cabango filled the shoes of Van der Hoon and Rodon

 

[Niigata Jack]

It is interesting that you like many say we have a weaker squad this season Why? We have lost Ayew yes but added 2 attacking players Piroe and Joseph so in theory we have added some depth and options, Woodman is regarded as no mean loss by many fans with Benda seen to be a better option, we have added Walsh in midfield and have Brandon Cooper available along with Cabango,Bennett and Lati in the centre backs....we may be suspect at RB with Connor being injured but im not really sure how we can say we are weaker just because Ayew is gone.
Yes he was often our nmain goal outlet butLowe should have scored more....Ayew was often too selfish and stopped us scoring more and this season it seems we have a fit Cullen and Whittaker appears to have bulked up.
So really apart form Ayew im not so sure we are that much weaker of course it depends on what other departures there may be

I do think our squad is better than a lot of people make out, however nobody has really seen enough of these players to know whether they are better than what we had. Presumably if Cooper thought he was sitting on some gold, he'd have stuck around.

As things stand, we've lost a proven good (although nothing special) keeper at this level, one of the best CBs in the division last season and a talisman in Ayew... potentially with our captain out the door next, as well as Roberts.

If we lose Guehi, Ayew, Roberts, Grimes and Woodman then thats 5 of our best/most proven players gone and not replaced with anyone with any sort of proven track record. We are left with players with potential and whilst that's exciting and the best we can hope for, it can go either way.

Guehi gone he wasn't ours to lose, Ayew was always gonna go when his contract runout, but before he did he worked his socks off for us and will be remembered for that, I know he was vastly overpaid and he probably had to put a shift in to attract suitors, but still he did do very well, Hourihane [I shouldn't mention him in the same breathe as Ayew] was also in the shop window and on decent money, but that's where any comparison ends, I don't think Woodman was ever gonna comeback, especially with him and all the other players that Cooper was off, Grimes I think will go, not sure about Roberts as he's injured.

 

[Risc]

Yes we have lost Ayew, who masked plenty of Cooper’s inefficiencies. We are also set to lose our skipper. Any squad without £20m Guehi in championship is obviously weaker aswell, but full credit to Cooper for being able to bring him here.

That seems to me a post of someone who is ready to jump on the new Manager at first opportunity using pro Cooper rubbish.

No I wont be jumping on the new manager at first opportunity spouting pro cooper rubbish unlike those who rubbished Cooper spouting pro Potter rubbish and still do so....Potters teams were booed off as early as October 2018 it took until Decemebr for the boos for Cooper.
There is a saying "there is none so blind as those than cannot see".....its very true.

Yes losing Geuhi is a blow and why is he worth £20M?..he was being slated in his initial appearances yet shrewd Cooper worked how to best use him and give him confidence so the same could be said of Coopers first season when Dan James and Mcburnie had gone at the beginning and then Baston went too
Or Coopers Second season when Van Der Hoorne and then Rodon left

Im not saying Cooper was a manager in the league or mould of Roberto or Brendan but he got results which is what he was tasked to do and at times there was some nice football played but people convinced themseleves of otherwise....and Im not saying it was in all of every game but there was attacking intent...and yes the final was a let down ...but had the penealty not occured who knows what coulod have happened...
You say Ayew masked Coopers inefficiencies yet he wasnt on the pitch when we beat Forest in the cup.....He did get us results when it looked like we were coming away with nothing though....but then that should be expected....looking at the squad in reality we exceeded waht most of us expected and predicted at the start of the season.

Cooper has gone we will soon have a new man at the helm and he will get my support...but he has to getr results I wont put up with "performances" but no result.....I like to be entertained but I hate the feeling of walking away from the ground having lost...even when we have looked easy on the eye but failed to get the better of the opposition.

He was rubbished because of the brand of football we played, and was backed by the board.

I’d take mid table next year in what will be a season without the leagues highest paid player and also arguably best attacking player, best defensive midfielder, and £20m defender. We blew a huge chance last season.

 

[Vetchonian]

No I wont be jumping on the new manager at first opportunity spouting pro cooper rubbish unlike those who rubbished Cooper spouting pro Potter rubbish and still do so....Potters teams were booed off as early as October 2018 it took until Decemebr for the boos for Cooper.
There is a saying "there is none so blind as those than cannot see".....its very true.

Yes losing Geuhi is a blow and why is he worth £20M?..he was being slated in his initial appearances yet shrewd Cooper worked how to best use him and give him confidence so the same could be said of Coopers first season when Dan James and Mcburnie had gone at the beginning and then Baston went too
Or Coopers Second season when Van Der Hoorne and then Rodon left

Im not saying Cooper was a manager in the league or mould of Roberto or Brendan but he got results which is what he was tasked to do and at times there was some nice football played but people convinced themseleves of otherwise....and Im not saying it was in all of every game but there was attacking intent...and yes the final was a let down ...but had the penealty not occured who knows what coulod have happened...
You say Ayew masked Coopers inefficiencies yet he wasnt on the pitch when we beat Forest in the cup.....He did get us results when it looked like we were coming away with nothing though....but then that should be expected....looking at the squad in reality we exceeded waht most of us expected and predicted at the start of the season.

Cooper has gone we will soon have a new man at the helm and he will get my support...but he has to getr results I wont put up with "performances" but no result.....I like to be entertained but I hate the feeling of walking away from the ground having lost...even when we have looked easy on the eye but failed to get the better of the opposition.

He was rubbished because of the brand of football we played, and was backed by the board.

I’d take mid table next year in what will be a season without the leagues highest paid player and also arguably best attacking player, best defensive midfielder, and £20m defender. We blew a huge chance last season.

Again this "brand" of football it was not as sterile as is talked about....it is felt so as it has been watched form the armchair with empty grounds...it wasnt in the league of Laudrup but was no worse than Potters.....except we didnt have Dan James who got us out of our seats...often the ball went direct to James from Nordfeldt route 1 but we have overlooked that as it was great watching James.
We only had the leagues highest paid player because no one else wanted him otherwise he would have been gone long ago....as much as he was an asset he was also "an albatross " around our necks as those funds maybe could have got us the extra bit we needed to get us out of the league, and just because he was the highest paid player does that mean he is extra special or just the fact our previous administration cocked up when bringing him back trying to be clever and keep us in the PL?....and was Guehi a £20M player when he arrived?...Brandon Cooper is highly regarded who is to say he wont become another Rodon who if he had been on loan here from Chelsea would possibly have been sold for £20M not the fee we got.
Cooper has gone I get it that he wasnt everybodies cup of tea and I have learnt form my years on the North Bank and the Liberty that amongst as fans we will hold different opinions on players, managers even the game we are watching we are never all going to agree I just get wound up by the myths perpetuated without data...
Yes we missed out on promotion...many feel we threw away second place which went to a team relegated from the PL the previous season with the core of the team form the season before with more strength in depth....we lost in the play off final to the team which finished 3rd a place above us....I wasnt at the final and not watched the highlights but I am aware mant thought we were off the pace speaking to some they wonder how different it may have been had Brentford not scored so early from the penalty but we will never know..yes we blew a chance but maybe had the board given Cooper the no 9 he asked for instead of two crocked Yanks the outocme and the story may have been different ....
The king is dead long live the king
Already you are happy to settle for mid table obscurity, im not ....in recent years we have lost "quality" players during the windowlook at Coopers first season we lost Bony,Dan James,Oli McBurnie,Leroy Fer, in that summer but who came in?..we then lost Baston in the January window who Cooper had been getting a tune out of yet we still managed to finish 6th in the league not bad for a rookie manager who had never worked with "grown ups " before or had only played for Porthmadog and Bangor....so with the names being bandied around such as Eustace played as a pro at a decent level..managed non league grown ups and spent several years as a no2 in the Championship we should have great expectaions!

 

[Risc]

[/quote]
Again this "brand" of football it was not as sterile as is talked about....it is felt so as it has been watched form the armchair with empty grounds...it wasnt in the league of Laudrup but was no worse than Potters.....except we didnt have Dan James who got us out of our seats...often the ball went direct to James from Nordfeldt route 1 but we have overlooked that as it was great watching James.
We only had the leagues highest paid player because no one else wanted him otherwise he would have been gone long ago....as much as he was an asset he was also "an albatross " around our necks as those funds maybe could have got us the extra bit we needed to get us out of the league, and just because he was the highest paid player does that mean he is extra special or just the fact our previous administration cocked up when bringing him back trying to be clever and keep us in the PL?....and was Guehi a £20M player when he arrived?...Brandon Cooper is highly regarded who is to say he wont become another Rodon who if he had been on loan here from Chelsea would possibly have been sold for £20M not the fee we got.
Cooper has gone I get it that he wasnt everybodies cup of tea and I have learnt form my years on the North Bank and the Liberty that amongst as fans we will hold different opinions on players, managers even the game we are watching we are never all going to agree I just get wound up by the myths perpetuated without data...
Yes we missed out on promotion...many feel we threw away second place which went to a team relegated from the PL the previous season with the core of the team form the season before with more strength in depth....we lost in the play off final to the team which finished 3rd a place above us....I wasnt at the final and not watched the highlights but I am aware mant thought we were off the pace speaking to some they wonder how different it may have been had Brentford not scored so early from the penalty but we will never know..yes we blew a chance but maybe had the board given Cooper the no 9 he asked for instead of two crocked Yanks the outocme and the story may have been different ....
The king is dead long live the king
Already you are happy to settle for mid table obscurity, im not ....in recent years we have lost "quality" players during the windowlook at Coopers first season we lost Bony,Dan James,Oli McBurnie,Leroy Fer, in that summer but who came in?..we then lost Baston in the January window who Cooper had been getting a tune out of yet we still managed to finish 6th in the league not bad for a rookie manager who had never worked with "grown ups " before or had only played for Porthmadog and Bangor....so with the names being bandied around such as Eustace played as a pro at a decent level..managed non league grown ups and spent several years as a no2 in the Championship we should have great expectaions!
[/quote]

Your first sentence, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, for me it's night and day between Cooper's football and Potter's and I'm pretty certain most would agree.

Your point about Ayew, no one else wanting him, they couldn't afford him. Big chunks of parachute money went on his wages, and bringing in expensive loans like Hourihane who Cooper didn't get a tune out of. Next manager won't have those sort of resources. Guehi was a class player and will be a huge miss for us next year, full credit to Cooper for that, pity Palace didn't fancy him at all as he may have had a reunion.

If Brentford didn't score early? That's the risk you take when you go into a game with that defensive mindset, the game was over as soon as it went in. You live and die by your decisions, and he ballsed that one up massively.

New managers are always a gamble, but I'm 100% certain whatever happens results wise this Eustace will have us playing better football, which will go someway into trying to retain the identity that was started by Martinez, which allowed us to dine on the top table, punching above our weight for years and not just being another mediocre Championship club.

 

[Vetchonian]

Again this "brand" of football it was not as sterile as is talked about....it is felt so as it has been watched form the armchair with empty grounds...it wasnt in the league of Laudrup but was no worse than Potters.....except we didnt have Dan James who got us out of our seats...often the ball went direct to James from Nordfeldt route 1 but we have overlooked that as it was great watching James.
We only had the leagues highest paid player because no one else wanted him otherwise he would have been gone long ago....as much as he was an asset he was also "an albatross " around our necks as those funds maybe could have got us the extra bit we needed to get us out of the league, and just because he was the highest paid player does that mean he is extra special or just the fact our previous administration cocked up when bringing him back trying to be clever and keep us in the PL?....and was Guehi a £20M player when he arrived?...Brandon Cooper is highly regarded who is to say he wont become another Rodon who if he had been on loan here from Chelsea would possibly have been sold for £20M not the fee we got.
Cooper has gone I get it that he wasnt everybodies cup of tea and I have learnt form my years on the North Bank and the Liberty that amongst as fans we will hold different opinions on players, managers even the game we are watching we are never all going to agree I just get wound up by the myths perpetuated without data...
Yes we missed out on promotion...many feel we threw away second place which went to a team relegated from the PL the previous season with the core of the team form the season before with more strength in depth....we lost in the play off final to the team which finished 3rd a place above us....I wasnt at the final and not watched the highlights but I am aware mant thought we were off the pace speaking to some they wonder how different it may have been had Brentford not scored so early from the penalty but we will never know..yes we blew a chance but maybe had the board given Cooper the no 9 he asked for instead of two crocked Yanks the outocme and the story may have been different ....
The king is dead long live the king
Already you are happy to settle for mid table obscurity, im not ....in recent years we have lost "quality" players during the windowlook at Coopers first season we lost Bony,Dan James,Oli McBurnie,Leroy Fer, in that summer but who came in?..we then lost Baston in the January window who Cooper had been getting a tune out of yet we still managed to finish 6th in the league not bad for a rookie manager who had never worked with "grown ups " before or had only played for Porthmadog and Bangor....so with the names being bandied around such as Eustace played as a pro at a decent level..managed non league grown ups and spent several years as a no2 in the Championship we should have great expectaions!
[/quote]

Your first sentence, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, for me it's night and day between Cooper's football and Potter's and I'm pretty certain most would agree.

Your point about Ayew, no one else wanting him, they couldn't afford him. Big chunks of parachute money went on his wages, and bringing in expensive loans like Hourihane who Cooper didn't get a tune out of. Next manager won't have those sort of resources. Guehi was a class player and will be a huge miss for us next year, full credit to Cooper for that, pity Palace didn't fancy him at all as he may have had a reunion.

If Brentford didn't score early? That's the risk you take when you go into a game with that defensive mindset, the game was over as soon as it went in. You live and die by your decisions, and he ballsed that one up massively.

New managers are always a gamble, but I'm 100% certain whatever happens results wise this Eustace will have us playing better football, which will go someway into trying to retain the identity that was started by Martinez, which allowed us to dine on the top table, punching above our weight for years and not just being another mediocre Championship club.
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Those years we enjoyed following the MArtinez revolution were great but to recreate that again will need a miracle....you have to rememeber we were starting from ground zero, we had a wages structure in place...due to Martinezs success his old club Wigan came calling and he went there taking his staff along with Scotland for which the club received a siginificant sum of money for us as a club at the time which enabled us to reinvest...Brendan again worked some magic and got us promoted bnringing the fortunes the PL brings with it came the breaking of our wage structure and then the magic formula was lost...Brendans achievements got him noticed and again he went with a "star" player again bringing in a siginificant amount of monies...then the goldne momentour coup we got the legend that is Micheal Laudrup...the "identity" was beginning to crumble then as previously we had worked with "cast off" players some of whom had played or were in the squad for that game against Hull but now we were bringing in players good players yes but also we were losing the "One for all and allfor one" spririt Martinez had worked hard to instill into the team and the club....anyone who had witnesses post training sessions at the Glamorgan when we as a club used that as our training faciltity would have seen that....that is something else there was a period in the PL when we were still based at the GLamorgan...its the David Lloyd club now for younger readers...where else could you as a fan be sharing showers with your local Premier league players?....Of course this could not go on ...but itwas again something special and different whihc set us apart from other clubs. When we moved it was apparant there were cliques being allowed to form...somthing discouraged by Martinez and Rodgers and yes the football under Laudrup was good it was nt actually as great as some make out ...the best ever was that 45 mins against West Brom at home mind you it was sustained over the whole game or any where near since. We got the Cup win what a day!!!!
The problem was our previous owners were panicking that the PL dream would be lost and they couldnt cash in the philosphy and "spirit" that brought us through the years dissapeared in the the pursuit of results and premier league survival...resulting in some crazy player aqcuisition,and mega player payment....then it all went tumbling down.....IT makes you wonder about the philosphy we are all saying we lack a creative midfield yet our squad has players such as Fulton and Byers who came through our acadmey system...wy werent these developed into these players to bring this attrctive football....There a lots of elements that took us to where we were....now we have "Owners " who nhave ono emotional attahcment to the club...thir goal is promotion so they can sell us on and recoup their investment...to do so it is result dependant....maybe to get that "style" everyone is talking about back we will have to lose more than we win till we get it to work,,,,,would any new manager be allowed that by the owners?
They were great times...to get the quality of football we saw will be hrad to repeat...funny we stood out why wasnt every one doing it?
FOr me I will be happy to support a winning team that does show intent...

If you consider finishing 6th and then 4th mediocre then you are hard to please!

 

[Risc]

Yes you are correct, Martinez and Rodgers got poached off the back of the work they done here. Cooper unfortunately did not hence there was no significant money coming our way when losing him, quite the opposite actually, we paid him off.

Agree with your take on previous owners though.