Help from any Legal Eagles?

[legoman]

I recently returned from 3 weeks in Oz visiting relatives. On my return I had received a reminder from Croydon Council that I had not paid a traffic Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) and so in addition to the original £130 fine they were adding a £65 surcharge.

I have never have received the original notice and my offence occurred 3 weeks before I departed for Oz.

On the day I returned I immediately went online and paid the full whack (£195) and followed it up with an email explaining the situation and requesting a refund of the surcharge. I argued that I couldn't have paid a fine that I knew nothing about. Whilst I can't prove I did not receive the original notice, I doubt they can prove they sent it.

In typical Local Authority fashion, there is no viable phone number you can use and the only reasonable way to contact them is via email.

Today, following my email of explanation I have received SIX identical letters acknowledging my query and one letter saying they have received my £195 and the case is closed and I may no longer challenge the PCN. I've gone back to them to say I am not challenging the PCN, just the surcharge.

This sort of thing really boils my p*ss as councils seem to go out of their way to make it difficult to challenge them or even to get in touch.

Anyone on here been in a similar position? What did you do? What advice would you give me if I want to pursue this?

 

[Jack2jack]

I recently returned from 3 weeks in Oz visiting relatives. On my return I had received a reminder from Croydon Council that I had not paid a traffic Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) and so in addition to the original £130 fine they were adding a £65 surcharge.

I have never have received the original notice and my offence occurred 3 weeks before I departed for Oz.

On the day I returned I immediately went online and paid the full whack (£195) and followed it up with an email explaining the situation and requesting a refund of the surcharge. I argued that I couldn't have paid a fine that I knew nothing about. Whilst I can't prove I did not receive the original notice, I doubt they can prove they sent it.

In typical Local Authority fashion, there is no viable phone number you can use and the only reasonable way to contact them is via email.

Today, following my email of explanation I have received SIX identical letters acknowledging my query and one letter saying they have received my £195 and the case is closed and I may no longer challenge the PCN. I've gone back to them to say I am not challenging the PCN, just the surcharge.

This sort of thing really boils my p*ss as councils seem to go out of their way to make it difficult to challenge them or even to get in touch.

Anyone on here been in a similar position? What did you do? What advice would you give me if I want to pursue this?

Lego, so you queried the surcharge prior to sending out the payment, is that correct. And its all gone haywire due to postal strikes etc.
Anyway let me know.

 

[legoman]

Lego, so you queried the surcharge prior to sending out the payment, is that correct. And its all gone haywire due to postal strikes etc.
Anyway let me know.

Thanks for responding J2J. I arrived home in the early hours of 22/11 and the PCN reminder was waiting for me. There was only a short time left to pay the £195 before proceedings were threatened. I chose to pay the £195 then followed it up with my email. I felt this showed my honesty and truthfulness. I didn't want to get into a battle with the council.

 

[legoman]

Thanks for responding J2J. I arrived home in the early hours of 22/11 and the PCN reminder was waiting for me. There was only a short time left to pay the £195 before proceedings were threatened. I chose to pay the £195 then followed it up with my email. I felt this showed my honesty and truthfulness. I didn't want to get into a battle with the council.

Also the council have acknowledged receipt of my £195. I just think it's reasonable for me to have the £65 surcharge refunded.

 

[Jack2jack]

Also the council have acknowledged receipt of my £195. I just think it's reasonable for me to have the £65 surcharge refunded.

No problem, i'll have a word with some colleagues, and get back to you, maybe later, defo tomorrow.

 

[legoman]

No problem, i'll have a word with some colleagues, and get back to you, maybe later, defo tomorrow.

You're a fine fellow. That's brightened my afternoon as I've just tested positive for covid!

 

[Jack2jack]

You're a fine fellow. That's brightened my afternoon as I've just tested positive for covid!

No worries. Just had a word with them, they've said you can defo appeal retrospectively,(happens all the time) and maybe for the full amount if you can prove you were out of the country and or postal strikes made letters late etc.
if you need anymore help just give me a shout.
Forgot to mention you can appeal up 6 years after the event.

 

[legoman]

No worries. Just had a word with them, they've said you can defo appeal retrospectively,(happens all the time) and maybe for the full amount if you can prove you were out of the country and or postal strikes made letters late etc.
if you need anymore help just give me a shout.
Forgot to mention you can appeal up 6 years after the event.

Thanks for the prompt response. Just to clarify I don't dispute the offence and the original PCN. Camera got me bang to rights and it was my stupid error. Had I received the original PCN with a fine of £130 if paid in 14 days I would have done so. I'm only disputing the additional £65 on the basis I never got the original so how could I have known?

Also trying to get to speak to someone at the council is nigh on impossible. Could I threaten them with the small claims court?

 

[Jack2jack]

Thanks for the prompt response. Just to clarify I don't dispute the offence and the original PCN. Camera got me bang to rights and it was my stupid error. Had I received the original PCN with a fine of £130 if paid in 14 days I would have done so. I'm only disputing the additional £65 on the basis I never got the original so how could I have known?

Also trying to get to speak to someone at the council is nigh on impossible. Could I threaten them with the small claims court?

I will check for you, but from what I gather you can still appeal for the surcharge, which could be refunded if there has been an error with their admin, its up to them to prove otherwise, not you.
I'll have another word, and get back to you asap. Dont worry you've got 6 years to sort it. I would only threaten court as a last resort, best keep them sweet in the meantime. There is also an ombudsman complaint system, route which you could go down. Your local councillor etc.
ATB.

 

[legoman]

I will check for you, but from what I gather you can still appeal for the surcharge, which could be refunded if there has been an error with their admin, its up to them to prove otherwise, not you.
I'll have another word, and get back to you asap. Dont worry you've got 6 years to sort it. I would only threaten court as a last resort, best keep them sweet in the meantime. There is also an ombudsman complaint system, route which you could go down. Your local councillor etc.
ATB.

If Cosmic, ta J2J!

 

[Jack2jack]

If Cosmic, ta J2J!

No problem at all

 

[legoman]

My frustration with the councils and I guess many large organisations is that they seem to be set up in such a way that they make it difficult for you to actually speak to a human to the extent that they hope you just give up

 

[Itchysphincter]

I know this isn’t legal advice and these things are a complete pain, but unless you’ve got plenty of time and a really stress free life I’d consider just sucking up the surcharge. I know it’s wrong on a point of principal but you’ve got to works out how much the fight is worth to you. If you’re struggling to put food on the table fair enough, but if you screwed up and can afford the hit just let it go.

 

[legoman]

I know this isn’t legal advice and these things are a complete pain, but unless you’ve got plenty of time and a really stress free life I’d consider just sucking up the surcharge. I know it’s wrong on a point of principal but you’ve got to works out how much the fight is worth to you. If you’re struggling to put food on the table fair enough, but if you screwed up and can afford the hit just let it go.

Its a fair point but I'm lucky that I do have time. I normally pick my battles, but it really gets my goat that the service you often receive from people like this is dreadful. I like to think I could stick one on them on behalf of some of the poor old folk who don't have the nous to do it.

 

[Jack2jack]

Legoman, I haven't forgotten, just my contact wasn't in today, will get back to you asap.