Man Utd

[JackSomething]

£86m on Antony.
£75m on Sancho.
£80m on Pogba.
£80m on Lukaku.
£70m on Casemiro.

I mean, I could list another 10 or 20 like that, but you get the picture.

On paper, I can see the argument for Sancho and Pogba. Pogba was absolutely brilliant for Juventus and France, while Sancho had been brilliant for a very good Dortmund team.

Lukaku was over-priced but actually did well in his first season (27 goals). He didn't suit Solskjaer after Mourinho was sacked though. Antony and Casemiro were complete panic buys after they got humped in ten Hag's first two games. Casemiro looked like a good signing for one season then fell apart, while there is no excuse for spending £80m+ on Antony.

 

[JackSomething]

The most astonishing thing about their demise is that they had a 20-year head start on Liverpool as well. They had the best of everything - 1993 to 2013 they had a better stadium, better squad, better manager, better spending power.

In the space of just over a decade, they've fallen behind them on every single conceivable measure.

It takes a special kind of fuckwittery to mess things up like that.

I'd compare it to Liverpool post-Dalglish (the first time obviously), but at least Liverpool were able to win some Champions Leagues before finally winning the league again. It's pretty clear Man U have fallen even further than Liverpool did and have a lot more work to do to be successful again.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

I'd compare it to Liverpool post-Dalglish (the first time obviously), but at least Liverpool were able to win some Champions Leagues before finally winning the league again. It's pretty clear Man U have fallen even further than Liverpool did and have a lot more work to do to be successful again.

Yeah I don't think Liverpool ever fell behind quite as badly as United have. From memory I think the worst they ever finished was something like 8th/9th under Souness, but mostly they were always top 4 or 5, quite a few 2nd places, and all of that was before Klopp. And they still kept winning lots of cups.

United could quite conceivably finish midtable this season, or even bottom half. Think the squad cost between £750m and a billion. It's astonishing really.

 

[Smurph]

Yeah I don't think Liverpool ever fell behind quite as badly as United have. From memory I think the worst they ever finished was something like 8th/9th under Souness, but mostly they were always top 4 or 5, quite a few 2nd places, and all of that was before Klopp. And they still kept winning lots of cups.

United could quite conceivably finish midtable this season, or even bottom half. Think the squad cost between £750m and a billion. It's astonishing really.

The collapse of United has been incredible. I can't remember another club going from being such a dominant force to a laughing stock.

It's a poison chalice.

 

[JackSomething]

On the subject of the Europa League, I'm sure most posters here are able to remember the UEFA Cup and Cup Winner's Cup, back in the days of only actual Champions being allowed in the Champions League/European Cup.

I remember those tournaments often being more entertaining than the European Cup. You'd have the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best teams from the biggest leagues and they were usually really good teams. Now UEFA's second biggest club competition has United and Spurs finishing 3rd and 4th in the group while being dogshit in the PL.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

The collapse of United has been incredible. I can't remember another club going from being such a dominant force to a laughing stock.

It's a poison chalice.

Yep. Like I say, when you consider how powerful they were at their peak, you have to really go some to make such a mess of it to be where they are now.

Who else has made such a mess of things? Milan after 2007, perhaps? Valencia post-Benitez? There aren't many.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

On the subject of the Europa League, I'm sure most posters here are able to remember the UEFA Cup and Cup Winner's Cup, back in the days of only actual Champions being allowed in the Champions League/European Cup.

I remember those tournaments often being more entertaining than the European Cup. You'd have the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best teams from the biggest leagues and they were usually really good teams. Now UEFA's second biggest club competition has United and Spurs finishing 3rd and 4th in the group while being dogshit in the PL.

Oh, don't get me started.

Used to love those days. Uefa Cup on a Tuesday, European Cup on a Wednesday and CWC on a Thursday. You knew where you were. And on BBC or ITV as well.

Those were the days

 

[Smurph]

Yep. Like I say, when you consider how powerful they were at their peak, you have to really go some to make such a mess of it to be where they are now.

Who else has made such a mess of things? Milan after 2007, perhaps? Valencia post-Benitez? There aren't many.

They went from such a strong position of power to this.

I do wonder if things could have been different if they had stuck with Moyes for a bit longer.

 

[JackSomething]

They went from such a strong position of power to this.

I do wonder if things could have been different if they had stuck with Moyes for a bit longer.

Yes, they'd have been relegated long ago.

I'm exaggerating of course, but sacking Moyes is not on the list of massive mistakes they've made post-Ferguson. Letting Ferguson pick his successor and not telling him to fuck off when he picked his fellow Scot is on the list.

I'd say letting the odd 2nd place finish fool them into thinking they were only a couple of big-money signings away from winning the league was their biggest mistake, not realising the team needed a complete rebuild.

 

[Smurph]

Yes, they'd have been relegated long ago.

I'm exaggerating of course, but sacking Moyes is not on the list of massive mistakes they've made post-Ferguson. Letting Ferguson pick his successor and not telling him to fuck off when he picked his fellow Scot is on the list.

I'd say letting the odd 2nd place finish fool them into thinking they were only a couple of big-money signings away from winning the league was their biggest mistake, not realising the team needed a complete rebuild.

So you'd tell the man who created a dynasty at united to fuck off when he recommends his successor?

Mmmmm, ok.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

They went from such a strong position of power to this.

I do wonder if things could have been different if they had stuck with Moyes for a bit longer.

They should never have appointed Moyes. There was no evidence he had it in him to manage a european giant.

At that time they should have been in for Mourinho, who was still at his peak. Or even Klopp, who'd peaked at Dortmund. Or someone like that. Someone who could have handled it.

 

[JackSomething]

So you'd tell the man who created a dynasty at united to fuck off when he recommends his successor?

Mmmmm, ok.

Fair point, maybe a slightly more diplomatic response would have been merited. David Gill leaving at the same time as Ferguson and Ed Woodward taking his job probably didn't help as that was the start of them being totally inept in the transfer market.

 

[T8AD365]

The most astonishing thing about their demise is that they had a 20-year head start on Liverpool as well. They had the best of everything - 1993 to 2013 they had a better stadium, better squad, better manager, better spending power.

In the space of just over a decade, they've fallen behind them on every single conceivable measure.

It takes a special kind of fuckwittery to mess things up like that.

The club stood still for the last 20 years under the Glazers and allowed the other clubs to catch up and surpass them

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

I'd say letting the odd 2nd place finish fool them into thinking they were only a couple of big-money signings away from winning the league was their biggest mistake, not realising the team needed a complete rebuild.

Really well put. What I call "mirage" 2nd places. Bit like when Arsenal finished 2nd to Leicester. Or when Liverpool finished 2nd to Arsenal's greatest side in 2002. Nowhere near, in reality.

United have technically finished 2nd a couple of times but they've been about 6 or 7 quality players short every single time.

 

[waynekerr55]

Alex Ferguson retired.

That's it. All you need to know.

Don't underestimate the impact of David Gill also leaving at the time too