Non Payment of Expenses - what to do?

[Smurph]

The matron is her line manager. It would have been her that signed off the expense but she wasnt there when it was submitted so the admin manager took it on - what a fecking mistake. The matron signed off the other two colleagues who attended that course within a month of receiving it. This is scandalous in my opinion.
The matron is aware of of the matter but doesnt appear to be resolving it.
I would love to have the health minister give the hospital a call.
There have been a lot of emails. The union is involved and saying that she should send one last message before using the union form. I think it is a grievance after that.
Why oh why does it get to this stage.
You could be your bottom dollar that the same person would be apoplectic if she paid for some fillers and they weren't done

I haven't gone through the full thread so apologies if they has already been stated or asked.

Do your wife have email confirmation that the expense would be reimbursed by the employer?

If it were me I would reply with that email chain asking the money to be paid asap, highlight other people on the course have had their money back and set a deadline for this payment.

If that doesn't work I would go above the line managers head and straight to her/his manager.

PS, should mention I raise the subject first during my next 121 with said manager.

 

[Cooperman]

The matron is her line manager. It would have been her that signed off the expense but she wasnt there when it was submitted so the admin manager took it on - what a fecking mistake. The matron signed off the other two colleagues who attended that course within a month of receiving it. This is scandalous in my opinion.
The matron is aware of of the matter but doesnt appear to be resolving it.
I would love to have the health minister give the hospital a call.
There have been a lot of emails. The union is involved and saying that she should send one last message before using the union form. I think it is a grievance after that.
Why oh why does it get to this stage.
You could be your bottom dollar that the same person would be apoplectic if she paid for some fillers and they weren't done

If this is the union advice and if all other means have been exhausted (we would have HR involved by now) then I’d agree with the approach.

Managers that don’t manage, someone referenced it earlier. The scourge of many workplaces.

 

[jack_lord]

If this is the union advice and if all other means have been exhausted (we would have HR involved by now) then I’d agree with the approach.

Managers that don’t manage, someone referenced it earlier. The scourge of many workplaces.

HR imagine being able to get hold of them when you need them. I believe they have a 30 minute window on Thursday lunchtime

 

[jack_lord]

I haven't gone through the full thread so apologies if they has already been stated or asked.

Do your wife have email confirmation that the expense would be reimbursed by the employer?

If it were me I would reply with that email chain asking the money to be paid asap, highlight other people on the course have had their money back and set a deadline for this payment.

If that doesn't work I would go above the line managers head and straight to her/his manager.

PS, should mention I raise the subject first during my next 121 with said manager.

She had a 1-2-1 pdr before Christmas and this was brought up. Matron said she would deal with it..........you couldn't make this shit up.
MBH is making noises about quitting as that will teach them - well it won't so I'm trying to be level headed without going in with the sledge hammer.

 

[Smurph]

She had a 1-2-1 pdr before Christmas and this was brought up. Matron said she would deal with it..........you couldn't make this shit up.
MBH is making noises about quitting as that will teach them - well it won't so I'm trying to be level headed without going in with the sledge hammer.

Probably needs escalating about the Matron's head and I'm sure I've read someone mentioned raising a grievance.

Deffo with you about keeping a level head about it.

Hope it gets sorted sooner rather than later than later for both of you.

 

[MajorR]

Have the union given your wife a template or a form of words for the e mail?
If not, your wife needs to prepare the e mail outlining the facts and make it clear that they have 7 days to resolve, if not the Union will be submitting a formal complaint or grievance on her behalf to the Director of Nursing or equivalent.

 

[jack_lord]

Have the union given your wife a template or a form of words for the e mail?
If not, your wife needs to prepare the e mail outlining the facts and make it clear that they have 7 days to resolve, if not the Union will be submitting a formal complaint or grievance on her behalf to the Director of Nursing or equivalent.

The union have said to use the online template which is for underpayment of wages and amend it to suit. They did say send one more email first before doing this. They didn't say what they would do if there was to resolution.
Will she be victimised after submitting this?
She feels that.

 

[3swan]

The union have said to use the online template which is for underpayment of wages and amend it to suit. They did say send one more email first before doing this. They didn't say what they would do if there was to resolution.
Will she be victimised after submitting this?
She feels that.

She shouldn't be victimised, but sadly in the real world it depends on the people involved.

I would as the union suggest one final email keeping it to the point.

Along the lines of

That it is now 7 months unresolved, and stating the facts that your wife had paid upfront knowing that it would be reimbursed.

Also that your wife is reluctant to go down an official grievance route but feels as there is now no option unless there is a reply and confirmation that payment will be made in x days.

Maybe pointing out that this is not a personal attack but a failure within the process.

If the Union template needs amending then there is one here

Grievance letter template | Acas

A template letter for employees to use to raise a formal grievance with their employer.

www.acas.org.uk

 

[Smurph]

The union have said to use the online template which is for underpayment of wages and amend it to suit. They did say send one more email first before doing this. They didn't say what they would do if there was to resolution.
Will she be victimised after submitting this?
She feels that.

Try to tell her not to worry about victimisation, easier said than done.

Keep a diary of events and if the worst comes to the worst there's the employment tribunal route.

The employment law changes that were introduced in October 2024 should help.

 

[MajorR]

Good advice from 3Swan and Smurph. Your wife needs to try and make the email sound as though it’s an amicable attempt to resolve the issue, but also making the point in a firm manner.

The people who’ve allowed this to drift and remain unresolved need their backsides kicked, and if this ends up with a senior official you’d hope that happens.

Good luck.

 

[jack_lord]

Good advice from 3Swan and Smurph. Your wife needs to try and make the email sound as though it’s an amicable attempt to resolve the issue, but also making the point in a firm manner.

The people who’ve allowed this to drift and remain unresolved need their backsides kicked, and if this ends up with a senior official you’d hope that happens.

Good luck.

The sad thing in all of this is they are the senior officials.

My wife can't even submit a new claim because the same person will still be the signatory for her account. My wife can not open a new account until the above person closes that expense account down or transfers it to the other senior manager (in this case senior matron).

This was 8 months ago in a few days.

If my wife cancelled one of her clinics they would be on her back within the day.
I have suggested that she cancels one of the clinics as then they have to speak to her. Drastic times and all that.

 

[Squarebear]

Not knowing very much about this.

Is it worth putting payment conditions on the final invoice.

Within 10 days = invoice amount.

Within 11-30 days = invoice amount + 10%

Etc...

 

[jack_lord]

Not knowing very much about this.

Is it worth putting payment conditions on the final invoice.

Within 10 days = invoice amount.

Within 11-30 days = invoice amount + 10%

Etc...

That is an interesting angle. I'm not sure if it can be done as it is a reimbursement of expenses but if it is a possibility then a ccj against the NHS would be a headline.

 

[MajorR]

The sad thing in all of this is they are the senior officials.

My wife can't even submit a new claim because the same person will still be the signatory for her account. My wife can not open a new account until the above person closes that expense account down or transfers it to the other senior manager (in this case senior matron).

This was 8 months ago in a few days.

If my wife cancelled one of her clinics they would be on her back within the day.
I have suggested that she cancels one of the clinics as then they have to speak to her. Drastic times and all that.

I take it one of the people involved is a NHS staff, I know you mentioned the second was possibly a Matron so I’m guessing a Band 8A.

If it’s a Band 7 Service Manager, then there’d be people who could sort him/her out and pretty quickly.

Keep us posted.

 

[jack_lord]

Try to tell her not to worry about victimisation, easier said than done.

Keep a diary of events and if the worst comes to the worst there's the employment tribunal route.

The employment law changes that were introduced in October 2024 should help.

I take it one of the people involved is a NHS staff, I know you mentioned the second was possibly a Matron so I’m guessing a Band 8A.

If it’s a Band 7 Service Manager, then there’d be people who could sort him/her out and pretty quickly.

Keep us posted.

I take it one of the people involved is a NHS staff, I know you mentioned the second was possibly a Matron so I’m guessing a Band 8A.

If it’s a Band 7 Service Manager, then there’d be people who could sort him/her out and pretty quickly.

Keep us posted.

The matron was an 8B and about to get her 8C. The Service manager is an 8A