Same or differing perspective.

[Ringwood Jack]

Ntcham offers us a bit of physicality, bit of directness and the ability to get a goal out of nothing. Not sure anybody else offers that in our squad. Fulton maybe the nearest but he has developed the Grimes side and backward passing gene.

 

[jack_lord]

Is Ntcham a game changer or changes games when he pushes himself to his ability. Are players who are in the starting 11 game changers?

 

[Niigata Jack]

And yet how many times has Ntcham been equally as ineffective in games looking disinterested as if he couldnt care.

As with most players like Ntcham - the reason he plays Championship football is that he has talent but does not have the ability/desire (delete as appropriate) to show it every week - if he did he would never have signed for us

"And he is a fraction of the player JDG was - passenger or not.

"And he is a fraction of the player JDG was - passenger or not."

You've said it! Ntcham is playing in the Championship, JDG played at an higher level I agree and if he had what you suggest Ntcham doesn't have at championship level, we wouldn't have seen JDG at Swansea, they are similar in their careers at Swansea, both are and were used as Subs a lot of the time and are usually the first to be substituted.

Nobody will ever change my mind on JDG! and I don't see Ntcham as the player I'd like him to be, as I said they are similar players at the level they both were and are. So I fundamentally disagree that Ntcham is a faction of the "player" that JDG supposedly was.

 

[Niigata Jack]

The highlight of De Guzman's career with us was getting a standing ovation from the Valencia fans after his display against them in the Europa League and that free kick.

Like Ntcham and Hernandez he had the ability to completely turn a game on its head but never had the consistency to do so, otherwise lets face it he wouldn't have been playing for Swansea City

And that post has put this subject to bed, well and truly, where's the Clap Emoji when you need it

 

[JackSomething]

"And he is a fraction of the player JDG was - passenger or not."

You've said it! Ntcham is playing in the Championship, JDG played at an higher level I agree and if he had what you suggest Ntcham doesn't have at championship level, we wouldn't have seen JDG at Swansea, they are similar in their careers at Swansea, both are and were used as Subs a lot of the time and are usually the first to be substituted.

Nobody will ever change my mind on JDG! and I don't see Ntcham as the player I'd like him to be, as I said they are similar players at the level they both were and are. So I fundamentally disagree that Ntcham is a faction of the "player" that JDG supposedly was.

Your memory is playing tricks on you in the part I've highlighted.

JDG played in 45 games in his first season, there were only 2 games he didn't take part in across all competitions. Of those 45 games, he played the full 90 minutes 28 times. Many of his other substitutions were after the 80th minute. He was only named as a substitute in 5 games total.

Second season he played in 48 games. He was a starter in 36 of those games. Although he was subbed off more often that season, he still played the full 90 minutes in 22 games. He played the full 90 minutes less under Monk than he did under Laudrup. Which to me backs up what I said earlier in the thread about a better manager than Monk may have tried harder keep him.

Stats taken from here if you want to check: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jonathan-de-guzman/leistungsdaten/spieler/31067/plus/0?saison=2013

 

[Niigata Jack]

Your memory is playing tricks on you in the part I've highlighted.

JDG played in 45 games in his first season, there were only 2 games he didn't take part in across all competitions. Of those 45 games, he played the full 90 minutes 28 times. Many of his other substitutions were after the 80th minute. He was only named as a substitute in 5 games total.

Second season he played in 48 games. He was a starter in 36 of those games. Although he was subbed off more often that season, he still played the full 90 minutes in 22 games. He played the full 90 minutes less under Monk than he did under Laudrup. Which to me backs up what I said earlier in the thread about a better manager than Monk may have tried harder keep him.

Stats taken from here if you want to check: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jonathan-de-guzman/leistungsdaten/spieler/31067/plus/0?saison=2013

Oh well, he wasn't a player I was fond of, people can go on and on and on my opinion of him won't change.

 

[K23]

My take on Ntcham. Is at his best when we're playing fast forward thinking football. Under Martin, this has usually been when we're chasing a game in the last 20 minutes. If we are going to play on the front foot from the first whistle under Duff, we could see a different, more consistent Ntcham enjoying his football. Starting a game under Martin when we're playing pedestrian, cautious football, he's a passenger.

My take on JdG. Like Leon, he had that instinct for finding a pocket of space, looking to receive a pass to give the player on the ball an option and keep the game moving forwards. When both were on the pitch, their movement off the ball into space was so good, it often looked like we had an extra player in midfield and outnumbered the opposition midfield. He also chipped in with more goals than we're used to from a midfielder. He wasn't a great tackler and I think a lot of people criticised him because of that but for me, he was an essential cog in our well oiled machine under Laudrup and was one of my favourite players at that time.

 

[Niigata Jack]

My take on Ntcham. Is at his best when we're playing fast forward thinking football. Under Martin, this has usually been when we're chasing a game in the last 20 minutes. If we are going to play on the front foot from the first whistle under Duff, we could see a different, more consistent Ntcham enjoying his football. Starting a game under Martin when we're playing pedestrian, cautious football, he's a passenger.

My take on JdG. Like Leon, he had that instinct for finding a pocket of space, looking to receive a pass to give the player on the ball an option and keep the game moving forwards. When both were on the pitch, their movement off the ball into space was so good, it often looked like we had an extra player in midfield and outnumbered the opposition midfield. He also chipped in with more goals than we're used to from a midfielder. He wasn't a great tackler and I think a lot of people criticised him because of that but for me, he was an essential cog in our well oiled machine under Laudrup and was one of my favourite players at that time.

I'll get another blast for this, but he was a bit of a flat track bully for me, he played well against "Valencia", but they were in very poor from for them at that time, up against the better teams did we see much of him, from memory we didn't see him in many of them.

Away the lads :roll:

 

[Dr. Winston]

JdG could have scored a goal every game, but because he didn't "Get stuck into 'em innit!" we've had nearly a decade of one of the most important participants in perhaps the single best season in the clubs history being oddly berated.

Some strange people about indeed.

 

[Niigata Jack]

JdG could have scored a goal every game, but because he didn't "Get stuck into 'em innit!" we've had nearly a decade of one of the most important participants in perhaps the single best season in the clubs history being oddly berated.

Some strange people about indeed.

Why cause they've a different opinion to you?, where only your opinion counts as in most things with you!

 

[Dr. Winston]

People who believe that the Earth is flat have a different opinion to me. Should I respect that?

 

[Niigata Jack]

People who believe that the Earth is flat have a different opinion to me. Should I respect that?

Believe what you want?

I don't know why I replied in first place, :roll:

As you were!

 

[K23]

I'll get another blast for this, but he was a bit of a flat track bully for me, he played well against "Valencia", but they were in very poor from for them at that time, up against the better teams did we see much of him, from memory we didn't see him in many of them.

Away the lads :roll:

I was always aware that JdG divided opinion and perhaps the best example of this was a game we drew at Villa and that evening there was a guy called Kieron on the old site absolutely lambasting JdG for his performance and going well OTT. (tbf, he was a bit of a headcase and I think he got himself banned eventually). Anyway, a few hours earlier, my mate and I had been on a train on our way home from Villa Park and we were sharing a table with 2 Villa fans who said they thought JdG was MoM, an opinion that both me and my mate agreed with. When opposition fans think one of your players was MoM, you can be fairly sure he'd had a good game.

 

[Neath_Jack]

As I said in the first post, people have different opinions (especially on subjects like football players) and never the twain shall meet.

Everyone is correct.
Everyone is wrong.
Who's got the most stamina to keep going.

 

[JackSomething]

As I said in the first post, people have different opinions (especially on subjects like football players) and never the twain shall meet.

Everyone is correct.
Everyone is wrong.
Who's got the most stamina to keep going.

One of the better things about this site to me (perhaps I'm just getting old), is that no-one seems to have the stamina to keep arguments going. Mostly they just fade out or people agree to disagree. Thankfully the world champions of getting the last post in have not joined this forum.