Senedd Poll

[exiledclaseboy]

“If the Senedd is to survive…”

This is the problem with that line of argument. I can accept you think that successive Welsh governments have been crap. I wouldn’t necessarily argue as a whole and I think a change would do the country good. But literally no one is questioning the very existence of the U.K. parliament, Congress on the US, the Bundestag or the French parliament because they think the governments are crap. It’s absolutely ridiculous and extremely Welsh.

 

[Neath_Jack]

Uppafuckingsenedd

“If the Senedd is to survive…”

This is the problem with that line of argument. I can accept you think that successive Welsh governments have been crap. I wouldn’t necessarily argue as a whole and I think a change would do the country good. But literally no one is questioning the very existence of the U.K. parliament, Congress on the US, the Bundestag or the French parliament because they think the governments are crap. It’s absolutely ridiculous and extremely Welsh.

Classic Dic Sion Dafydd behaviour, with a dollop of ‘I hope it works out’.

Uppafuckingsenedd

 

[rockinj]

“If the Senedd is to survive…”

This is the problem with that line of argument. I can accept you think that successive Welsh governments have been crap. I wouldn’t necessarily argue as a whole and I think a change would do the country good. But literally no one is questioning the very existence of the U.K. parliament, Congress on the US, the Bundestag or the French parliament because they think the governments are crap. It’s absolutely ridiculous and extremely Welsh.

To be fair if you read what I said I’m literally saying that I’m not sure whether it’s party performance related or structural and it’s not long established so there’s no certainty about long term survival especially in these very extreme political times.

I do think the level of political apathy towards it in terms of voting numbers is not good for the long term survival. As I said in another post I think the ship has sailed but when you consider reform are on 25% they are hostile to the senedd so it’s not without possibility that say Plaid are equally as bad or God forbid worse that the more reactionary elements get more confident.

I don’t think it’s fair to go down the “Welsh” line because you fail to back a political project. That’s the sort of speak that comes from more militant nationalist musings.

I’ve said I’m a firm believer in devolution of decision making. That makes sense of course it does. That doesn’t mean that you have to have a “National” Parliament.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

To be fair if you read what I said I’m literally saying that I’m not sure whether it’s party performance related or structural and it’s not long established so there’s no certainty about long term survival especially in these very extreme political times.

I do think the level of political apathy towards it in terms of voting numbers is not good for the long term survival. As I said in another post I think the ship has sailed but when you consider reform are on 25% they are hostile to the senedd so it’s not without possibility that say Plaid are equally as bad or God forbid worse that the more reactionary elements get more confident.

I don’t think it’s fair to go down the “Welsh” line because you fail to back a political project. That’s the sort of speak that comes from more militant nationalist musings.

I’ve said I’m a firm believer in devolution of decision making. That makes sense of course it does. That doesn’t mean that you have to have a “National” Parliament.

This is all mealy mouthed nonsense. Your use of quotation marks on the word national speaks volumes. I’m not a nationalist. Never have been and never will be. I find the whole thing distasteful and I don’t understand why I should be “proud” of an accident of birth. That aside, Wales is my home, it’s where I was raised and despite having worked extensively across the U.K. for the U.K. government never once considered Welsh people so inferior that we should be denied the right to elect our own government. What marks us out in your opinion that convinces you that we should be ruled from London and London only and are incapable of deciding for ourselves? Is it the choices Wales makes which for good or bad are at least our choices? Or is it the fact that Wales keeps electing people you don’t approve of? The U.K. regularly elects governments I don’t like but I’ve never once called for the right of the U.K. people to do that to be removed from them. It’s incredibly odd.

 

[rockinj]

This is all mealy mouthed nonsense. Your use of quotation marks on the word national speaks volumes. I’m not a nationalist. Never have been and never will be. I find the whole thing distasteful and I don’t understand why I should be “proud” of an accident of birth. That aside, Wales is my home, it’s where I was raised and despite having worked extensively across the U.K. for the U.K. government never once considered Welsh people so inferior that we should be denied the right to elect our own government. What marks us out in your opinion that convinces you that we should be ruled from London and London only and are incapable of deciding for ourselves? Is it the choices Wales makes which for good or bad are at least our choices? Or is it the fact that Wales keeps electing people you don’t approve of? The U.K. regularly elects governments I don’t like but I’ve never once called for the right of the U.K. people to do that to be removed from them. It’s incredibly odd.

You’re not listening to anything I’m saying it’s pointless.

I’ve literally said I think Wales was in a better place economically, culturally etc in the 90s we were looking good.

We didn’t have a Parliament then. Was it all hunky dory no. Was reform and more devolved decision making needed? Yes.

It’s not about being ruled by London. We elect Welsh MPs. London is the powerhouse of the UK. It’s one of the leading Cities in the World. I don’t give a flying feck that it is in England. Just like I don’t care that we had a European Commission with its single market and customs union.

I’ve never cared for where, or who I only care about outcomes. This is my politics. If the NHS is better in private hands great, I couldn’t give a fuck.

If we’re judging based on that criteria why would I be anything other than negative? People are defensive about it simply because it is in Wales.

I’ll make a deal with you. I’ll give Plaid a good amount of time and the new very expensive extended Senedd. Let’s see.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

I’ll make a deal with you. I’ll give Plaid a good amount of time and the new very expensive extended Senedd. Let’s see.

That’s nice of you. But even then you’d be critiquing the performance of the government as a proxy for the principle that Wales is almost uniquely unable to govern itself.

 

[rockinj]

That’s nice of you. But even then you’d be critiquing the performance of the government as a proxy for the principle that Wales is almost uniquely unable to govern itself.

The problem we have here is ideological. You are fine with the concept because it’s a bigger State more politicians more bureaucracy I’m naturally not okay with that.

Anyway it’s time to move on. I’m not hoping it fails far from it. I hope things start improving and we move up international rankings instead of down.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

The problem we have here is ideological. You are fine with the concept because it’s a bigger State more politicians more bureaucracy I’m naturally not okay with that.

Anyway it’s time to move on. I’m not hoping it fails far from it. I hope things start improving and we move up international rankings instead of down.

That first para is one of the daftest things you’ve ever written. I’m fine with the concept because I believe in the democratic principle that any country should be able to elect members to its own legislature and the government is formed from that. You aren’t fine with the concept because you don’t think the people of Wales are capable of doing that and thus shouldn’t be allowed to. Mostly because they keep electing a party of which you don’t approve.

 

[rockinj]

That first para is one of the daftest things you’ve ever written. I’m fine with the concept because I believe in the democratic principle that any country should be able to elect members to its own legislature and the government is formed from that. You aren’t fine with the concept because you don’t think the people of Wales are capable of doing that and thus shouldn’t be allowed to. Mostly because they keep electing a party of which you don’t approve.

So what’s the United Kingdom? Or Great Britain?

Should England have its own Parliament ?

 

[exiledclaseboy]

So what’s the United Kingdom? Or Great Britain?

Should England have its own Parliament ?

Yes, I’d have no objection to that. We could then get rid of the U.K. parliament and federalise the U.K, which will happen eventually anyway. in many ways the U.K. parliament is already England only since devolution. I also think. Welsh, Scottish and NI MPs should abstain from voting on issues that only effect England.

 

[rockinj]

Yes, I’d have no objection to that. We could then get rid of the U.K. parliament and federalise the U.K, which will happen eventually anyway. in many ways the U.K. parliament is already England only since devolution. I also think. Welsh, Scottish and NI MPs should abstain from voting on issues that only effect England.

But you see my point here? The concept of the UK Parliament being the centre of Gov is Centuries old because we are part of that State! That is what represents us in International summits, global trade etc etc.

Now your post has more coherence if this was a much more fundamental wider change.

It does seem strange that England in the current setup doesn’t have that representation if it’s desired. That more federal system that is completely coherent across the board actually makes more sense to me.

Maybe that’s what it is there needs a much more interesting broader discussion on the UK as a whole. But I suppose in the current time that’ll never happen as all we care about is some brown people on boats.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

But you see my point here? The concept of the UK Parliament being the centre of Gov is Centuries old because we are part of that State! That is what represents us in International summits, global trade etc etc.

Now your post has more coherence if this was a much more fundamental wider change.

It does seem strange that England in the current setup doesn’t have that representation if it’s desired. That more federal system that is completely coherent across the board actually makes more sense to me.

Maybe that’s what it is there needs a much more interesting broader discussion on the UK as a whole. But I suppose in the current time that’ll never happen as all we care about is some brown people on boats.

There we are see. It took a while but we decided I was right all along.

 

[rockinj]

There we are see. It took a while but we decided I was right all along.

BS. But good try. You are actually in agreement the system as things stand is not fit for purpose which is what I’m saying.

The big difference between you and I is that I would not shed a tear if it were abolished. I think as things stand it’s not working for Wales. Maybe that can change with much more accountability etc

 

[exiledclaseboy]

BS. But good try. You are actually in agreement the system as things stand is not fit for purpose which is what I’m saying.

The big difference between you and I is that I would not shed a tear if it were abolished. I think as things stand it’s not working for Wales. Maybe that can change with much more accountability etc

I think at the moment we’re in a constitutional half way house in terms of devolution. I wouldn’t say it’s not fit for purpose but it’s not ideal. Federalism is the endgame. Always was.

 

[Swanjaxs]

We are all Greenland