So, did we miss Grimes then?...

[Niigata Jack]

No more shapeless than we were against Preston, or Burnley, or any number of other games where we've been mostly shite. It's truly staggering how many people are pretending that the performance today was any different to plenty of others just because Grimes was missing.

I know what you saying and I'm no fan of Grimes, but we had very little control in centre mid today without him, I'd go so far as saying that we probably wouldn't have conceded those two early goals today if he had been there, we may well have of course but I think we'd have had a bit more substance in midfield if he had been there, I love the value of Fulton and glad he's still with us, but I don't think he has the control of Grimes.

 

[Uxy]

No more shapeless than we were against Preston, or Luton, or Burnley, or any number of other games where we've been mostly shite. First half performances in general have largely been rubbish, and Grimesey has been front and centre in almost all of them.

It's truly staggering how many people are pretending that the entire performance today was any different to plenty of others just because Grimes was missing.

We've played poorly with Grimes plenty of times. But today was a rare example when we looked completely unstructured and rudderless.

RM is at least partly to blame for that, with some weird tactical wonkery, but I did wonder if those who were critical of Grimes would at least play a straight bat on this. I guess not

 

[Dr. Winston]

We were no more shapeless or "directionless" than we often are.

First half crap, second half better, but mostly too lateral and slow. That's often the case whether Grimes is there or not. I cannot for the life of me understand why some people are trying to claim that today was especially bad because we were missing a few more lateral passes.

 

[Swanjaxs]

At least Grimes looks for work, he puts a shift in, doesn't hide, today, apart from Oko, Manning and Cooper everyone else went awol, the Wigan keeper won't have an easier shift the rest of the season...

 

[Cinio Dydd Sul]

I'm by no means a huge Grimes fan but we certainly did miss him (or Allen) today.

Having said that there were still plenty of other issues with the performance that even if Grimes was playing we still probably wouldn't have won.

 

[Skippyjack]

I think it's more to do with we didn't have anyone to replace Grimes in the team except Joe Allen, and he's crocked, so we had a makeshift midfield.. it's nothing to do with Grimes.. it's just one of those things

 

[Cooperman]

But today was a rare example when we looked completely unstructured and rudderless.

It certainly was not a rare example. It was another one of those Martinball approaches to the game, a ‘run until they’re knackered’ type approach. Happens more often than it doesn’t; winning five games in a short space of time simply masks it.

 

[Risc]

There were fans praying for us to give them a hammering yesterday to pin the reason on Matt Grimes.

Was never going to happen though, first name on team sheet, as he has been since we were relegated from Premier League, every manager has seen it, every player who has played with him has seen it. As Uxy has said, a rudderless performance, and I’ll just add on, against an awful Wigan side.

 

[Risc]

Problem is we didn't try to replace him.

We were basically playing 3-0-7 in the first half. If we play that formation everytime he's out then yeah, we are in trouble.

We can’t replace him.

 

[Uxy]

It certainly was not a rare example. It was another one of those Martinball approaches to the game, a ‘run until they’re knackered’ type approach. Happens more often than it doesn’t; winning five games in a short space of time simply masks it.

Nah, not for me. I'm no fan of Martin's wonkery but today was the first time, maybe since his first days here, where they looked like 11 individuals doing their own thing. There's plenty of times where he's baffled me, and his subs yesterday also did that, but that was unusual IMO. Midfield is key to whatever he tries.

It also baffles me why teams sit on their lead against us. We go completely reckless but we're not punished because they shut up shop. The incompetence of the oppo has masked some major deficiencies.

 

[PSumbler]

There was a lot of needless switching of positions yesterday during the game - created no doubt by a moment of panic when we went 2-0 down. Moving Cooper and Oko-Flex round at that point was not correct when it was poor marking that cost us the two goals.

The first goal came when he jumped ahead of three defenders who didnt jump and the second we just lost the man and he deflected it home which just laid bare exactly how bad defensively we are.

Most good teams are built on solid back lines and the continual changing around of personnel there will not help - in particular for the three Martin needs to decide who his best three are and stick with them, there feels more than a touch at the moment of trying to shoehorn some players into the side

 

[J_B]

The line up was greeted with more positive comments on here than I can remember when it was announced.
I really think Cabango needs a spell out of the team. He's poor right now and has been for a while.
Midfield was awful. Cundle is struggling after a decent few games when he came into the side. Fulton wasn't his usual self and Oli is playing very wide which I don't think suits him.
We would have been much, much better with Grimes or Joe Allen in the side.
Piroe and Oba don't have an understanding. Piroe was at his best last season when Patterson was supplying his ammunition.

Martin doesn't seem to have a clue what his best team is.

 

[Dr. Winston]

There was a lot of needless switching of positions yesterday during the game - created no doubt by a moment of panic when we went 2-0 down. Moving Cooper and Oko-Flex round at that point was not correct when it was poor marking that cost us the two goals.

The first goal came when he jumped ahead of three defenders who didnt jump and the second we just lost the man and he deflected it home which just laid bare exactly how bad defensively we are.

Most good teams are built on solid back lines and the continual changing around of personnel there will not help - in particular for the three Martin needs to decide who his best three are and stick with them, there feels more than a touch at the moment of trying to shoehorn some players into the side

There's lots to agree with there. I'd go a bit further and suggest that not only are we trying to shoehorn players into the team, but into positions also. Cooper yesterday was the perfect example. Been playing really well as an AM, but started the game deep and ended it out wide.

We're trying to make the players fit a system rather than tweaking the system to fit the players. We've been down that road before and it rarely ends well.

 

[monmouth]

The issue isn't Grimes one way or the other. He's not the problem nor the solution.

We have a very poor manager, hat combines idiocy with intrangidence. He thinks he is some sort of special genius.

All we can hope is that the players do make it work somehow, or that he changes, or that he leaves. None are looking that likely, so I fear more and increasing frustration. I felt really alienated and annoyed watching that style yesterday, even when we scored and scrambled the draw. A few total humiliations by obviously terrible and worse than us teams may be what he needs, although it's the last thing we need.

Anyone thinking that Latibeaudiere and Grimes are the players to fully build a team around is not fit for the job. The Oko Flex and Obafemi decisions yesterday should be enough to sack him without compensation for gross incompetence. Wigan could have won that 5-0 if they'd played what was in front of them.

 

[Neath_Jack]

The issue isn't Grimes one way or the other. He's not the problem nor the solution.

We have a very poor manager, hat combines idiocy with intrangidence. He thinks he is some sort of special genius.

All we can hope is that the players do make it work somehow, or that he changes, or that he leaves. None are looking that likely, so I fear more and increasing frustration. I felt really alienated and annoyed watching that style yesterday, even when we scored and scrambled the draw. A few total humiliations by obviously terrible and worse than us teams may be what he needs, although it's the last thing we need.

Anyone thinking that Latibeaudiere and Grimes are the players to fully build a team around is not fit for the job. The Oko Flex and Obafemi decisions yesterday should be enough to sack him without compensation for gross incompetence. Wigan could have won that 5-0 if they'd played what was in front of them.

Intrangidence, that is getting used in work this week.

Diolch.