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Trust reaches resolution arising from the 2016 sale of the club

PSumbler said:
Londonlisa2001 said:
It’s quite incredibly one sided now as posts being made in public from the Trust (and from representatives of the sellers for that matter, continually posting bollox on the other site and now, I notice, on Wales Online - do you really think we don’t know who it is you moron?) which support their position via selective info and half truths can’t be challenged back on the same public forums.

The way this is being managed is genuinely disgraceful. The Trust is not supposed to be a closed shop for a few.

Whats been said on Wales Online?

Oh that prat Resloven has been posting on articles there about the Trust settlement. Much the same self serving nonsense as has been all over Keith’s site for month after month after month.
 
Uxy said:
PSumbler said:
I actually took a look at the minutes from the Feb board meeting yesterday

1. The website hasnt been relaunched yet as it became difficult with all the players coming and going in January. No idea why the players coming and going should impact a website for a Supporters Trust
2. Governance is on hold until after the AGM - Ummm, its one of your main primary objectives!
3. The American Stateside Jacks have been taken over by someone else - and that has what to do with the Trust?
4. DSA Update - see point 3 above
5. The Swans Trust Strategy will be emailed to TBMs after the website is completed. I think we know what the strategy is now

The absolute gem though was point 15 which read

Communications between the Trust Members and the Trust Board have generally improved over the years;
feedback on the social media sites has generally been good.


I wonder what the minute from the meeting on 21st Feb will read now :lol:

https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Internal-Record-February-2022-WEBSITE-FINAL.pdf

Oh and who is JW that they keep referring to ?

Julian Winter.

Ah that makes sense. Well he was really happy with their programme notes
 
Londonlisa2001 said:
PSumbler said:
Whats been said on Wales Online?

Oh that prat Resloven has been posting on articles there about the Trust settlement. Much the same self serving nonsense as has been all over Keith’s site for month after month after month.

Glad Ive not seen it - he'slikea one man echo chamber
 
Bonygyfraith said:
Close reading of the Trust chair's letter of explanation to members, together with some hard facts about the civil (so-called) 'justice' system in England & Wales ('E&W'), seem to show that the only reasonable decision by the Trust Board was to accept the final offer, and - of necessity - to do so without further consultation of the members.

* Members are, in effect, shareholders in the corporate body that is the 'Trust'. Those on the Board are in effect directors, who owe duties of care and confidentiality to the 'Trust' - which the members do not. A corporate body acts through its directors, not its shareholders, so a duty of confidentiality owed by the Trust means the Board cannot disclose confidential information to members.

* Anyone can join the Trust by paying a small membership fee. Communications to Trust members will, in practice, reach a wider audience, including the intended defendants ('Ds’), or at least that is the assumption that has to be made.

* The Board would thus have breached the confidentiality of the funding/insurance offer (see the letter) had it been revealed to members (as would have been necessary to enable them to make an informed decision on the settlement offer). It is quite usual for funders/insurers to require an offer to be kept confidential pending acceptance, as otherwise the recipient could use it to seek a better offer elsewhere or to negotiate a settlement (with the funder then getting no 'cut', as the funding/insurance agreement would not have been signed). Thus, consultation of the members on the settlement offer would probably have resulted in the offer of insurance/funding evaporating, thereby removing the best card in the Trust's 'hand' against the Ds and risking the settlement offer being withdrawn. (It also appears from the letter that the settlement offer itself was confidential to the Trust, i.e. the Board).

* The 2019 vote of members authorised the Board to litigate, but only if the Board was able to enter into financial arrangements that would adequately protect the Trust from the costs risks. It seems from the letter that the final insurance/funding offer did not meet this pre-condition, so that the Board probably had no mandate from members to litigate. Settlement on the best terms available seems to have been the only option.

* Initial indications seem to have been that adequate funding and insurance was available, and the letter suggests that it was only at the stage of final terms that the inadequacies emerged.

* Aside from the Board's duty of confidentiality as to the offer(s), had the Board consulted its members, it would have had a duty to provide an accurate 'warts and all' picture, i.e. advising members that the Trust was unable to litigate because adequate financial/insurance terms had not been received. As night follows day, that would likely have become known to the Ds, who would have had no incentive to continue to offer the settlement terms. Negotiations are a 'poker game', in which you cannot reveal your 'hand' to the opposition. The Ds knew full well that the Trust would not be able to litigate without adequate litigation funding and insurance.

* Sadly, having a good legal case is not enough to enable one to litigate in E&W without outside funding, unless one is, for instance, a wealthy oligarch or substantial business. Legal costs in a case such as this could have run into millions. Winning does not mean you get all your legal costs reimbursed, but only some of them. If you lose, you pay both your own costs and part of the opponents' costs. That situation is grossly unfair and denies access to civil justice to those without substantial means. It is a national disgrace, but not a matter which brings in votes, so successive governments fail to rectify it. The English Courts are open to Russian oligarchs to litigate their disputes, as they often do, sometimes between themselves. Taxpayers pay for the civil justice system, but most of them cannot afford to use those very courts which they support with their taxes. There are court fees payable by parties, but because there is a cap on such fees, the higher the amount of the claim, the lower the % fee. Large solicitors firms and Queens’ Counsel make huge amounts of money in such cases and argue that if higher court fees were charged, it would discourage such litigation (which is frankly codswallop). If the Chelsea owner wishes to make use of the E&W courts, he - and others like him - should have to pay a realistic amount towards the costs of the justice system, and all E&W taxpayers should be able to have the same access to the courts.

* This was a 'David and Goliath' case. Without adequate finance from a litigation funding company and insurance against the risk of losing, a not-for-profit such as the Trust, run by volunteers, could not take on 'big ticket' litigation such as this. The Trust could easily have found itself on the end of a costs bill it could not afford, with the result that it would have been liquidated by the Ds and its shares sold off.

* Aside from the costs risk, to run litigation of this sort is a big ‘ask’ for a volunteer Board. It needs people who are able to commit large amounts of time and, preferably, to remain in post until the litigation is concluded, as frequent changes can cause issues of continuity and consistency.

* As to the settlement itself, the draft terms which the members approved in 2017 were clearly financially better, but, with the prospect of relegation, the offer appears not to have been pursued by the owners. Since then, relegation has occurred, as has the pandemic. What the 2017 draft terms did show was willingness by the owners to purchase some Trust shares and by the Trust to sell them. It remains a pity, to say the least, that the Trust was not given the chance to sell some shares in 2016 and to participate in the huge financial realisation by other shareholders of their investment in, and work for, the Club over many years.

* As was made clear to members in the past, once funding and insurance terms were signed, the goal of litigation (and settlement) would have to be financial. It would have had to be assumed that success would mean that the Trust would sell all its shares (under a court order or a settlement) and cease to have any formal involvement in the company which owns the Club, and certainly not have a seat on the Board. The funds received would have likely been substantial, but could not be paid out to members. Instead, they would have been a ‘rainy day’ fund, to call upon in the event of the Club getting into financial difficulty in the future - and perhaps buying back some or all of the Club. Of course, that situation might never arise or not arise for many years. The Trust would have become a supporters organisation, like many others, only able to try to influence matters from outside. For those who value the Trust’s seat on the Club Board, that would not have been satisfactory.

* The money to be received at once will replenish the Trust’s coffers and assist in its various activities, provided they are within the scope of its constitution. All the more so if promotion is achieved and further money paid as agreed. Most supporters organisations would be delighted to have such funding. Yes, it’s much less than would have been received in 2016/7 on a partial share sale, but that is not the fault of Board members past or present. Yes, the Trust has been badly treated in the past, and denied justice due to the inadequacy of the E&W civil justice system.

* The 10% post-dilution ‘unprotected’ shares should not be ‘sneezed at’. In terms of shareholder voting, they are no worse than the original 21% shareholding, because anything less than a 25% shareholding means that the shareholder cannot stop a special resolution of shareholders.

* Dilution is of the percentage of the number of shares held, not necessarily of their market value. When new shares are issued in return for investment in the Club company, that should/may increase the value of the company: 10% of a bigger cake is not necessarily less than 21% of a smaller cake, and may be worth more. If the majority shareholders decide to sell, the Trust will have the opportunity (but not the obligation) to sell some or all of its shares (I think that’s what the chair’s letter means) - in other words, the Trust cannot be ‘cut out’ of any deal in the future. If a dividend is paid, the Trust will get its fair share.

* So, going forward, the Trust’s fortunes are linked with that of the majority owners and there is therefore every reason for them to work together, both as directors and shareholders. The Swans Trust may therefore be unique amongst supporters organisations (?) in (i) the extent to which fans can, through the Trust, take part in the Board's management of the Club and (ii) benefit collectively from the Club’s success.

Prick.
 
Bonygfraith is not a "shill" for anyone (learnt a new word today = stooge or plant apparently): not for the owners, the Board or Uncle Tom Cobley. He/She ('They") were not put up to posting by anyone and the post was not seen by anyone before being posted. They have not had access to either the settlement documentation or the funding/insurance offers and know no more about them than is set out in the Chair's letter.

As most of those posting use pseudonyms, so will Bonygyfraith. There is good reason to do so, given the sort of unpleasant personalised comments which pepper the forum. I read the replies in case anyone had addressed the issues I raised, but it was not to be. My post is balanced and even handed, and I believe correct in its analysis of the situation in which the Trust found itself in 2016-2022. It is also sets out a well founded, if controversial, view of the English & Welsh system of civil justice.

It's a pity to see members/Board members blaming each other, when the valid criticisms are of the former shareholders and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the 'new' owners (denied by all of them). It feels an injustice that former shareholders have not had to dip deeper into their pockets to share with the Trust the gains they made from the sale of shares in 2016. But neither former or present Boards are to blame for that. The ideal outcome would have been on the lines of the 2017 draft settlement, with sale of half the Trust's shares at the 2016 price and the Trust retaining the rest, together with the seat on the Club Board. That could very probably not have been achieved by Court action, particularly when supported by a funder. It plainly was not achieved by negotiation, the opponents apparently declining to purchase any Trust shares at this point, but with the possibility of sale in the future left open.

The choice for the Board was at best binary. Either agree the best deal available, including continuing participation in the Club company, or sue for financial remedies (if adequate funding/insurance were available) and give up future participation in the Club company. Adequate funding/indurance was apparently not available in the final terms offered, hence only the first option remained. The BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) was, it seems from the Chair's letter, not viable.

End of 'Swan song'.
 
Bonygyfraith said:
Bonygfraith is not a "shill" for anyone (learnt a new word today = stooge or plant apparently): not for the owners, the Board or Uncle Tom Cobley. He/She ('They") were not put up to posting by anyone and the post was not seen by anyone before being posted. They have not had access to either the settlement documentation or the funding/insurance offers and know no more about them than is set out in the Chair's letter.

As most of those posting use pseudonyms, so will Bonygyfraith. There is good reason to do so, given the sort of unpleasant personalised comments which pepper the forum. I read the replies in case anyone had addressed the issues I raised, but it was not to be. My post is balanced and even handed, and I believe correct in its analysis of the situation in which the Trust found itself in 2016-2022. It is also sets out a well founded, if controversial, view of the English & Welsh system of civil justice.

It's a pity to see members/Board members blaming each other, when the valid criticisms are of the former shareholders and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the 'new' owners (denied by all of them). It feels an injustice that former shareholders have not had to dip deeper into their pockets to share with the Trust the gains they made from the sale of shares in 2016. But neither former or present Boards are to blame for that. The ideal outcome would have been on the lines of the 2017 draft settlement, with sale of half the Trust's shares at the 2016 price and the Trust retaining the rest, together with the seat on the Club Board. That could very probably not have been achieved by Court action, particularly when supported by a funder. It plainly was not achieved by negotiation, the opponents apparently declining to purchase any Trust shares at this point, but with the possibility of sale in the future left open.

The choice for the Board was at best binary. Either agree the best deal available, including continuing participation in the Club company, or sue for financial remedies (if adequate funding/insurance were available) and give up future participation in the Club company. Adequate funding/indurance was apparently not available in the final terms offered, hence only the first option remained. The BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) was, it seems from the Chair's letter, not viable.

End of 'Swan song'.

Prick.
 
There is one very valid point being raised, which is maybe getting lost amongst all the rather self-inflicted (both initially and by the continued silence) opprobrium towards the Trust Board, which is the other parties in this.

Let's remember the conduct of the sellouts in all this. Excluded the Trust in 2016, according to Levien in that recording, they told him not to engage with the Trust. During everything since, they have probably acted in worse faith than anyone. Remember their conduct during the sale. Lest we forget the mediation debacle when their legal representation (and I use that phrase loosely) sought to disrupt and block any potential path to resolution. The legacies of Huw Jenkins, Leigh Dineen, Martin Morgan, John the Clog etc were all sold down the river for a small uplift in the money they would have received anyway if they'd just acted with a degree of basic consideration. Never forget that.

Let's also remember the ones who bought the shares. Remember Jason Levien and Steve Kaplan who, whether by naively following the advice of the sellouts, or being willing participants, excluded the Trust and pretty much failed to engage during the sale process. Remember who it was that walked away from the 2017 deal which, whatever you think about that, is undoubtedly a stronger position than we find ourselves currently.

As of now, remember that the reason this deal is so disappointing is also because of the actions of those parties too. If the financial settlement is paltry, it's because even now the sellouts couldn't do the honourable thing even at the last, merely what was economically expedient for them to do. If the rights of the Trust are diminished, or their position open to being further abused and reduced, that's on the majority owners. If the rumours of the club being the ones to pay the Trust in the event of promotion, then even then they've got away without any real impact to their position.

And where does Jake Silverstein fit into all this? He negotiated this deal, despite not being a shareholder, so when we judge this deal we also have to judge his actions. I'm reliably informed he's instructed a local estate agent to source him a house. He's acting like he's the future of our club. Is he already the owner? Well, we don't have any visibility on Swansea City LLC so for all we know he could have a significant stake there. The Trust has promises he's going to convert his loan but, well, promises haven't had a good history of being honoured during this debacle. As it stands, and until we know otherwise, some chap who has loaned our club £5m is effectively running the show. Bonkers. There is surely more to this, and I do wonder if those rumours about Morgan making another run at our club are true. A partnership perhaps? We shall see, and it doesn't seem like we're going to hear anything before its done, transparency isn't exactly at the forefront of all this.

So yeah, get the brickbats out for the Trust and its current board. I have every sympathy with the dilemma they faced but that only goes so far. Frankly, the way they've handled this, and continues to do so, is bloody awful. The position of at least some of the board is pretty clearly untenable and, if they think waiting in the Winchester for all this to blow over is a viable strategy, they've not been paying attention to the indefatigability of our fans. I know that better than anyone :lol: They need to front up, wake up and engage with the sizeable section of the membership that is about to be lost to them forever. Maybe that's baked into their actions, I don't know. But, if it is, the Trust is going to be something very different than it has been, which leads to the question of whether there needs to be something else to do what the Trust is supposed to do.

But either way, remember the others. There's never a shortage of anger on this issue, and the sellouts and those they sold to are far more worthy of the biggest share of it.
 
Bonygyfraith said:
Bonygfraith is not a "shill" for anyone (learnt a new word today = stooge or plant apparently): not for the owners, the Board or Uncle Tom Cobley. He/She ('They") were not put up to posting by anyone and the post was not seen by anyone before being posted. They have not had access to either the settlement documentation or the funding/insurance offers and know no more about them than is set out in the Chair's letter.

As most of those posting use pseudonyms, so will Bonygyfraith. There is good reason to do so, given the sort of unpleasant personalised comments which pepper the forum. I read the replies in case anyone had addressed the issues I raised, but it was not to be. My post is balanced and even handed, and I believe correct in its analysis of the situation in which the Trust found itself in 2016-2022. It is also sets out a well founded, if controversial, view of the English & Welsh system of civil justice.

It's a pity to see members/Board members blaming each other, when the valid criticisms are of the former shareholders and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the 'new' owners (denied by all of them). It feels an injustice that former shareholders have not had to dip deeper into their pockets to share with the Trust the gains they made from the sale of shares in 2016. But neither former or present Boards are to blame for that. The ideal outcome would have been on the lines of the 2017 draft settlement, with sale of half the Trust's shares at the 2016 price and the Trust retaining the rest, together with the seat on the Club Board. That could very probably not have been achieved by Court action, particularly when supported by a funder. It plainly was not achieved by negotiation, the opponents apparently declining to purchase any Trust shares at this point, but with the possibility of sale in the future left open.

The choice for the Board was at best binary. Either agree the best deal available, including continuing participation in the Club company, or sue for financial remedies (if adequate funding/insurance were available) and give up future participation in the Club company. Adequate funding/indurance was apparently not available in the final terms offered, hence only the first option remained. The BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) was, it seems from the Chair's letter, not viable.

End of 'Swan song'.

You are scum and so is anyone who defends them.
 
Bonygyfraith said:
Bonygfraith is not a "shill" for anyone (learnt a new word today = stooge or plant apparently): not for the owners, the Board or Uncle Tom Cobley. He/She ('They") were not put up to posting by anyone and the post was not seen by anyone before being posted. They have not had access to either the settlement documentation or the funding/insurance offers and know no more about them than is set out in the Chair's letter.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Uxy said:
There is one very valid point being raised, which is maybe getting lost amongst all the rather self-inflicted (both initially and by the continued silence) opprobrium towards the Trust Board, which is the other parties in this.

Let's remember the conduct of the sellouts in all this. Excluded the Trust in 2016, according to Levien in that recording, they told him not to engage with the Trust. During everything since, they have probably acted in worse faith than anyone. Remember their conduct during the sale. Lest we forget the mediation debacle when their legal representation (and I use that phrase loosely) sought to disrupt and block any potential path to resolution. The legacies of Huw Jenkins, Leigh Dineen, Martin Morgan, John the Clog etc were all sold down the river for a small uplift in the money they would have received anyway if they'd just acted with a degree of basic consideration. Never forget that.

Let's also remember the ones who bought the shares. Remember Jason Levien and Steve Kaplan who, whether by naively following the advice of the sellouts, or being willing participants, excluded the Trust and pretty much failed to engage during the sale process. Remember who it was that walked away from the 2017 deal which, whatever you think about that, is undoubtedly a stronger position than we find ourselves currently.

As of now, remember that the reason this deal is so disappointing is also because of the actions of those parties too. If the financial settlement is paltry, it's because even now the sellouts couldn't do the honourable thing even at the last, merely what was economically expedient for them to do. If the rights of the Trust are diminished, or their position open to being further abused and reduced, that's on the majority owners. If the rumours of the club being the ones to pay the Trust in the event of promotion, then even then they've got away without any real impact to their position.

And where does Jake Silverstein fit into all this? He negotiated this deal, despite not being a shareholder, so when we judge this deal we also have to judge his actions. I'm reliably informed he's instructed a local estate agent to source him a house. He's acting like he's the future of our club. Is he already the owner? Well, we don't have any visibility on Swansea City LLC so for all we know he could have a significant stake there. The Trust has promises he's going to convert his loan but, well, promises haven't had a good history of being honoured during this debacle. As it stands, and until we know otherwise, some chap who has loaned our club £5m is effectively running the show. Bonkers. There is surely more to this, and I do wonder if those rumours about Morgan making another run at our club are true. A partnership perhaps? We shall see, and it doesn't seem like we're going to hear anything before its done, transparency isn't exactly at the forefront of all this.

So yeah, get the brickbats out for the Trust and its current board. I have every sympathy with the dilemma they faced but that only goes so far. Frankly, the way they've handled this, and continues to do so, is bloody awful. The position of at least some of the board is pretty clearly untenable and, if they think waiting in the Winchester for all this to blow over is a viable strategy, they've not been paying attention to the indefatigability of our fans. I know that better than anyone :lol: They need to front up, wake up and engage with the sizeable section of the membership that is about to be lost to them forever. Maybe that's baked into their actions, I don't know. But, if it is, the Trust is going to be something very different than it has been, which leads to the question of whether there needs to be something else to do what the Trust is supposed to do.

But either way, remember the others. There's never a shortage of anger on this issue, and the sellouts and those they sold to are far more worthy of the biggest share of it.

Bravo 👏 👏 👏

Over to you Bongoguffshyt 🤡
 
Uxy said:
There is one very valid point being raised, which is maybe getting lost amongst all the rather self-inflicted (both initially and by the continued silence) opprobrium towards the Trust Board, which is the other parties in this.

Let's remember the conduct of the sellouts in all this. Excluded the Trust in 2016, according to Levien in that recording, they told him not to engage with the Trust. During everything since, they have probably acted in worse faith than anyone. Remember their conduct during the sale. Lest we forget the mediation debacle when their legal representation (and I use that phrase loosely) sought to disrupt and block any potential path to resolution. The legacies of Huw Jenkins, Leigh Dineen, Martin Morgan, John the Clog etc were all sold down the river for a small uplift in the money they would have received anyway if they'd just acted with a degree of basic consideration. Never forget that.

Let's also remember the ones who bought the shares. Remember Jason Levien and Steve Kaplan who, whether by naively following the advice of the sellouts, or being willing participants, excluded the Trust and pretty much failed to engage during the sale process. Remember who it was that walked away from the 2017 deal which, whatever you think about that, is undoubtedly a stronger position than we find ourselves currently.

As of now, remember that the reason this deal is so disappointing is also because of the actions of those parties too. If the financial settlement is paltry, it's because even now the sellouts couldn't do the honourable thing even at the last, merely what was economically expedient for them to do. If the rights of the Trust are diminished, or their position open to being further abused and reduced, that's on the majority owners. If the rumours of the club being the ones to pay the Trust in the event of promotion, then even then they've got away without any real impact to their position.

And where does Jake Silverstein fit into all this? He negotiated this deal, despite not being a shareholder, so when we judge this deal we also have to judge his actions. I'm reliably informed he's instructed a local estate agent to source him a house. He's acting like he's the future of our club. Is he already the owner? Well, we don't have any visibility on Swansea City LLC so for all we know he could have a significant stake there. The Trust has promises he's going to convert his loan but, well, promises haven't had a good history of being honoured during this debacle. As it stands, and until we know otherwise, some chap who has loaned our club £5m is effectively running the show. Bonkers. There is surely more to this, and I do wonder if those rumours about Morgan making another run at our club are true. A partnership perhaps? We shall see, and it doesn't seem like we're going to hear anything before its done, transparency isn't exactly at the forefront of all this.

So yeah, get the brickbats out for the Trust and its current board. I have every sympathy with the dilemma they faced but that only goes so far. Frankly, the way they've handled this, and continues to do so, is bloody awful. The position of at least some of the board is pretty clearly untenable and, if they think waiting in the Winchester for all this to blow over is a viable strategy, they've not been paying attention to the indefatigability of our fans. I know that better than anyone :lol: They need to front up, wake up and engage with the sizeable section of the membership that is about to be lost to them forever. Maybe that's baked into their actions, I don't know. But, if it is, the Trust is going to be something very different than it has been, which leads to the question of whether there needs to be something else to do what the Trust is supposed to do.

But either way, remember the others. There's never a shortage of anger on this issue, and the sellouts and those they sold to are far more worthy of the biggest share of it.

Outstanding. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
 
Bonygyfraith said:
Bonygfraith is not a "shill" for anyone (learnt a new word today = stooge or plant apparently): not for the owners, the Board or Uncle Tom Cobley. He/She ('They") were not put up to posting by anyone and the post was not seen by anyone before being posted. They have not had access to either the settlement documentation or the funding/insurance offers and know no more about them than is set out in the Chair's letter.

As most of those posting use pseudonyms, so will Bonygyfraith. There is good reason to do so, given the sort of unpleasant personalised comments which pepper the forum. I read the replies in case anyone had addressed the issues I raised, but it was not to be. My post is balanced and even handed, and I believe correct in its analysis of the situation in which the Trust found itself in 2016-2022. It is also sets out a well founded, if controversial, view of the English & Welsh system of civil justice.

It's a pity to see members/Board members blaming each other, when the valid criticisms are of the former shareholders and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the 'new' owners (denied by all of them). It feels an injustice that former shareholders have not had to dip deeper into their pockets to share with the Trust the gains they made from the sale of shares in 2016. But neither former or present Boards are to blame for that. The ideal outcome would have been on the lines of the 2017 draft settlement, with sale of half the Trust's shares at the 2016 price and the Trust retaining the rest, together with the seat on the Club Board. That could very probably not have been achieved by Court action, particularly when supported by a funder. It plainly was not achieved by negotiation, the opponents apparently declining to purchase any Trust shares at this point, but with the possibility of sale in the future left open.

The choice for the Board was at best binary. Either agree the best deal available, including continuing participation in the Club company, or sue for financial remedies (if adequate funding/insurance were available) and give up future participation in the Club company. Adequate funding/indurance was apparently not available in the final terms offered, hence only the first option remained. The BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) was, it seems from the Chair's letter, not viable.

End of 'Swan song'.

Talking about yourself in the third person and still talking shit I see.

Seeing as you're apparently keen for people to address the issues I raised, I look forward to your reply to Uxy's post.

I know much less about the situation than him, but I'd like to ask that if this was truly the only viable option for the Trust board, what happened to all the financial/insurance arrangements made by previous Trust board and sub-group members? Given that you believe the Trust had no choice but to make this deal, why did they cease taking advice from Lisa, who clearly knows far more about the issues at hand than the current Trust board?
 
JackSomething said:
Bonygyfraith said:
Bonygfraith is not a "shill" for anyone (learnt a new word today = stooge or plant apparently): not for the owners, the Board or Uncle Tom Cobley. He/She ('They") were not put up to posting by anyone and the post was not seen by anyone before being posted. They have not had access to either the settlement documentation or the funding/insurance offers and know no more about them than is set out in the Chair's letter.

As most of those posting use pseudonyms, so will Bonygyfraith. There is good reason to do so, given the sort of unpleasant personalised comments which pepper the forum. I read the replies in case anyone had addressed the issues I raised, but it was not to be. My post is balanced and even handed, and I believe correct in its analysis of the situation in which the Trust found itself in 2016-2022. It is also sets out a well founded, if controversial, view of the English & Welsh system of civil justice.

It's a pity to see members/Board members blaming each other, when the valid criticisms are of the former shareholders and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the 'new' owners (denied by all of them). It feels an injustice that former shareholders have not had to dip deeper into their pockets to share with the Trust the gains they made from the sale of shares in 2016. But neither former or present Boards are to blame for that. The ideal outcome would have been on the lines of the 2017 draft settlement, with sale of half the Trust's shares at the 2016 price and the Trust retaining the rest, together with the seat on the Club Board. That could very probably not have been achieved by Court action, particularly when supported by a funder. It plainly was not achieved by negotiation, the opponents apparently declining to purchase any Trust shares at this point, but with the possibility of sale in the future left open.

The choice for the Board was at best binary. Either agree the best deal available, including continuing participation in the Club company, or sue for financial remedies (if adequate funding/insurance were available) and give up future participation in the Club company. Adequate funding/indurance was apparently not available in the final terms offered, hence only the first option remained. The BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) was, it seems from the Chair's letter, not viable.

End of 'Swan song'.

Talking about yourself in the third person and still talking s**t I see.

Seeing as you're apparently keen for people to address the issues I raised, I look forward to your reply to Uxy's post.

I know much less about the situation than him, but I'd like to ask that if this was truly the only viable option for the Trust board, what happened to all the financial/insurance arrangements made by previous Trust board and sub-group members? Given that you believe the Trust had no choice but to make this deal, why did they cease taking advice from Lisa, who clearly knows far more about the issues at hand than the current Trust board?

The Board were quite explicit in the last couple of weeks that they had funding to go forward nailed down. The concern was whether that would run out further down the piece, if the budget that was prepared by Goodman Derrick was inadequate, and more might be needed further down the track. In that scenario, the Trust could be committed to using its own funds/assets. IMO anyway, when questions of whether the budget was adequate were raised, that should have been sorted by GD, and they've not covered themselves in glory here either, but it also thinks you can have certainty here, and you can't. We also will never know how hard the board actually pushed on that front, once the potential for a deal arose.

Anyway, I wouldn't focus on Why Lisa here. She's said herself that it's not a matter of individuals, but the Trust having the right knowledge and expertise available to the board. Relationships break down for all sorts of reasons, and when it isn't working it's best to call it quits IMO. The Trust's reps have, quite explictly, said they had access to the right experience. One board member on the Thursday meeting explicitly referenced his own personal experience as an important part of that. As such, the Trust seems to be arguing it had the necessary expertise. Whether the membership will accept that is another matter.
 

Swansea City v Leeds United

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