Work in the summer

[Dr. Winston]

Not sure I'm on board with the idea that our squad has been "gradually degraded".

The squad we had last season could have made the playoffs with competent management, and arguably the season before that too. It did make the playoffs for two consecutive seasons before Russy got his hands on it.

Things have taken a bit of a downturn this year, but that's more of a consequence of trying to change styles, sacking the manager who was supposed to implement the change, then hiring a new manager who wants to play the way we used to in the first place. We've got a load of players, permanent and loanees, who Williams has no use for and will have to be moved on to provide him with funds for players that he does want.

Our recruitment was disorganised and clueless, an echo of the general off field situation at times.

 

[Itchysphincter]

If we’re both on the same wavelength money wise, I’d give Naughton another year.
We could play him anywhere outfield and he’ll give you an almost certain 7/10.
Similar with Pato but with Walsh and Allen, we simply aren’t getting our monies worth unfortunately. Time to move on there.

Hiya Kyle!

 

[ABSwan]

Apparently Portsmouth looking at Lowe, lazy journalism as he played for them in the past or true, who knows.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

The squad we had last season could have made the playoffs with competent management, and arguably the season before that too. It did make the playoffs for two consecutive seasons before Russy got his hands on it.

Sounds a good yarn that last bit. But it just isn't true. It was nowhere near the same squad.

We lost Woodman, Guehi, Roberts, Hourihane, Routledge, Dhanda, Whitaker, Lowe and Ayew that summer. Most were regular starters when fit, the others featured regularly off the bench. With the honourable exception of Piroe, the club replaced them with inferior players.

That was a summer of huge turnover on the playing staff, with the parachute payments running out as well. Completely disingenuous to claim otherwise.

 

[jasper_T]

Hourihane was awful for us. Dhanda peaked with his first touch.

 

[Swansea93]

Hourihane was awful for us. Dhanda peaked with his first touch.

He was such a disappointment considering how well he done with Villa at this level.

 

[JackSomething]

Hourihane was awful for us. Dhanda peaked with his first touch.

Yep, Andrew talking about good yarns:

- Hourihane was not good for us.
- Routledge played in only 16 Championship games the season before and was 36 years old by that summer.
- Dhanda was a fringe player at best.
- Whittaker had barely played under Cooper and Martin clearly didn't rate him.
- Lowe was good for us the season before, but the club/Martin were happy to sell him. I'm sure they would have kept him if Martin wanted him.

I will give him Ayew, Roberts, Woodman, Guehi. All big losses.

We brought in Piroe, Paterson, Downes, Obafemi, Ntcham in the summer, plus loans of Laird and Williams. In January, we added Fisher, Ogbeta, Christie, Wolf, Burns. I haven't included Walsh because he was almost always broken.

Of those Piroe scored more goals than Ayew, Downes was clearly an upgrade in our midfield, while Obafemi and Ntcham were arguably better than anyone we lost in their positions. The defence was definitely weaker than the season before though.

Martin was backed heavily with incoming players and badly underperformed.

 

[Dr. Winston]

I'm sure one day people will run out of excuses for Martin, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

Yep, Andrew talking about good yarns:

- Hourihane was not good for us.
- Routledge played in only 16 Championship games the season before and was 36 years old by that summer.
- Dhanda was a fringe player at best.
- Whittaker had barely played under Cooper and Martin clearly didn't rate him.
- Lowe was good for us the season before, but the club/Martin were happy to sell him. I'm sure they would have kept him if Martin wanted him.

I will give him Ayew, Roberts, Woodman, Guehi. All big losses.

We brought in Piroe, Paterson, Downes, Obafemi, Ntcham in the summer, plus loans of Laird and Williams. In January, we added Fisher, Ogbeta, Christie, Wolf, Burns. I haven't included Walsh because he was almost always broken.

Of those Piroe scored more goals than Ayew, Downes was clearly an upgrade in our midfield, while Obafemi and Ntcham were arguably better than anyone we lost in their positions. The defence was definitely weaker than the season before though.

Martin was backed heavily with incoming players and badly underperformed.

I never said Martin wasn't backed (although most of what we brought in was inferior to went before, a lot of it cheap and cheerful).

My objection was to the statement that he took Cooper's squad and made it worse. And you've very nicely helped prove my point there, huge turnover in players that summer as you rightly point out. Cheers.

 

[JackSomething]

I never said Martin wasn't backed (although most of what we brought in was inferior to went before, a lot of it cheap and cheerful).

My objection was to the statement that he took Cooper's squad and made it worse. And you've very nicely helped prove my point there, huge turnover in players that summer as you rightly point out. Cheers.

No problem, there definitely was a big turnover of players that summer. A fair few in the January too.

Possibly left us with a stronger squad overall and Martin could do nothing with it, which is a pretty damning indictment of his management skills.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

No problem, there definitely was a big turnover of players that summer. A fair few in the January too.

Possibly left us with a stronger squad overall and Martin could do nothing with it, which is a pretty damning indictment of his management skills.

Stronger squad overall?

Have a look at our matchday squad for the play off final in May 2021, and compare it to the first match after the September 2021 transfer window shut (a 0-0 v Hull). There's a marked drop off in quality, imo. Certainly in the starting XI anyway.