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2023/24 Financial Statements

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Don't think so, he mentioned 'well before'?

What was way before?
He was refuting you mentioning about keeping Williams and Coleman in post way too long.
The new owners only stepped into the picture in November.

Currently the only major appointments that have been made since they came in was Sheehan as interim head coach, Montague and the guy who was promoted to CEO in place of Coleman.
 
In a nutshell:

Revenue from match day, broadcasting and commercial = £21.5m

Operational expenses which includes wages, the running of the sites, ‘other costs’ = £47.0m (depreciation & amortisation might be in here as well).

Gain on player trading = £10.0m

21.5 - 47 + 10 = somewhere close to the £15m loss.

The devil will be in the detail, particularly the ‘others’ and the outgoings to the board members. Need to see the actual CH filing for this. Operational expense is up nearly 10% on the year before, not good.

The onus is still very much on the ownership group to keep plugging a gap each month of up to £2m. We’re not blessed with saleable assets which can reduce that.

We need a Leeds promotion and the Piroe clause money.
This all feels about right to me. Reflecting on the last 3 yrs accounts while sweeping leaves …

- we turn over about £20 m
- we spend about £40 m. I do actually think this will be player wages and other legit expenses. It doesn’t look like a situation where the shareholders are scalping the business through excessive fees, salaries, etc
- to bridge the gap we have either sold players or drawn in cash from shareholders

I’ve worked with plenty of cr*p businesses over the last 20 years and the club is, sadly, reliant on shareholders (whether through equity or loans) to stay afloat. It’s all about cash flow, not profit.

Why do the investors do this (as someone else asked)? It’s the gamble that you can cheaply assemble a squad which can sneak a promotion. If you’re a rich person doing this with pin money, and you love football and have a big ego, then, I guess, why not. Everyone thinks they can win at FIFA manager.

More sustainably there seem to be only two approaches:
- bring costs into line, which means a dramatic reduction, and presumably a lower quality player pool, which risks relegation and a further fall in income (the snake eating its tail), but eventually find financial equilibrium. The trouble is, that might be the third, if not fourth, division (where we were when I came in).
- run it at a ‘manageable’ loss (how much depends on shareholder parameters) and plan/ hope for a big sale of an academy product every year or so.

I’ll look forward to looking at accounts too but whilst the numbers may shift around the picture will be the same.

One other thing that caught my eye is the dilapidation provision (basically, we need to give the stadium back in the condition we received it) which looks like quite a lot of £ out each year.

Not great!
 
He was refuting you mentioning about keeping Williams and Coleman in post way too long.
The new owners only stepped into the picture in November.

Currently the only major appointments that have been made since they came in was Sheehan as interim head coach, Montague and the guy who was promoted to CEO

Poor wording then maybe.

They've brought in Stearman and Fotheringham too.
 
That’s really inexcusable. People try to give you money and you can’t be bothered.
This all feels about right to me. Reflecting on the last 3 yrs accounts while sweeping leaves …

- we turn over about £20 m
- we spend about £40 m. I do actually think this will be player wages and other legit expenses. It doesn’t look like a situation where the shareholders are scalping the business through excessive fees, salaries, etc
- to bridge the gap we have either sold players or drawn in cash from shareholders

I’ve worked with plenty of cr*p businesses over the last 20 years and the club is, sadly, reliant on shareholders (whether through equity or loans) to stay afloat. It’s all about cash flow, not profit.

Why do the investors do this (as someone else asked)? It’s the gamble that you can cheaply assemble a squad which can sneak a promotion. If you’re a rich person doing this with pin money, and you love football and have a big ego, then, I guess, why not. Everyone thinks they can win at FIFA manager.

More sustainably there seem to be only two approaches:
- bring costs into line, which means a dramatic reduction, and presumably a lower quality player pool, which risks relegation and a further fall in income (the snake eating its tail), but eventually find financial equilibrium. The trouble is, that might be the third, if not fourth, division (where we were when I came in).
- run it at a ‘manageable’ loss (how much depends on shareholder parameters) and plan/ hope for a big sale of an academy product every year or so.

I’ll look forward to looking at accounts too but whilst the numbers may shift around the picture will be the same.

One other thing that caught my eye is the dilapidation provision (basically, we need to give the stadium back in the condition we received it) which looks like quite a lot of £ out each year.

Not great!
Would you then expect to see the academy upgraded soon-ish? At least to me it makes all the sense in the world to funnel as much as they can afford into it.
 
Club's a basket case.

We've lost the best part of £50m in three years. That can't continue. Something needs to change - pronto.
 
That’s really inexcusable. People try to give you money and you can’t be bothered.

Would you then expect to see the academy upgraded soon-ish? At least to me it makes all the sense in the world to funnel as much as they can afford into it.
Worth a read

 
That’s really inexcusable. People try to give you money and you can’t be bothered.

Would you then expect to see the academy upgraded soon-ish? At least to me it makes all the sense in the world to funnel as much as they can afford into it.
Yes (if I were a shareholder/ business owner) I would spend as much as I could afford on the academy. We have a big catchment area, and hence first shot at a decent talent pool. It’s also the best shot at that money making transfer which helps the club fund itself.
 
I would far rather be a Swansea than a Cardiff.
All clubs in this league lose money (operating losses) but at least we are not saddled with frightening levels of Debt (Owner and pricey 3rd party) like almost all clubs.
 
I would far rather be a Swansea than a Cardiff.
All clubs in this league lose money (operating losses) but at least we are not saddled with frightening levels of Debt (Owner and pricey 3rd party) like almost all clubs.

Clearly it could be worse, I agree, but losing £15-20m a season isn't exactly healthy either. Just because some other clubs are bigger basket cases, doesn't mean we're not one ourselves.

We need to be really careful, this is not a good trajectory to be on.
 

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