A reflection on the season-Duff and Williams.

[Dr. Winston]

Last season was worse than this one. At no point this season did we go nearly six months with only one win against eleven men despite having a squad clearly good enough (for everyone other than Russy fanboys) to at least mount a playoff challenge.

 

[Professor]

Last season was worse than this one. At no point this season did we go nearly six months with only one win against eleven men despite having a squad clearly good enough (for everyone other than Russy fanboys) to at least mount a playoff challenge.

True. We seemed to carry more injuries this season with our weakest squad for perhaps 15 years. Duff was a poor fit for us, but don't blame him. We struggled at first under Williams but unusually for us were able to put away poor sides away from home. Ultimately we finish mid-table with an average squad and within a handful of points of a Cardiff team who were promotion contenders in the Autumn. A better start next season would give us an outside play off chance.

 

[Gors Buster]

If I had to sum this season up - centre half gets the ball, no movement in front of him, gives it to other centre half, same problem, plays it back to Rushworth, start process again.
I’ve only renewed because my boy would be heartbroken if we didn’t.
The problem is fixable, highlighted when Joe plays. Requires recruitment though.

 

[magicdaps10]

Last season was worse than this one. At no point this season did we go nearly six months with only one win against eleven men despite having a squad clearly good enough (for everyone other than Russy fanboys) to at least mount a playoff challenge.

Did we really have a squad good enough for the play offs last season?!
It was certainly a divide in fans views on this which made it clear that it wasn't clearly the case. You had ones who stated the squad was too 6 quality but they tended to be the ones who didn't like Martin......and ones who didn't want to give too much of an expectation who as you say might have been fans of Martin. Somewhere in between all that there was people who had a sense of reality on the whole situation.
Who was right.......its really an open book for the correct answer.

This season for me as been an absolute mess from the summer right up until January with worry and frustration since, only the last month has there been a bit of hope reinstalled.

 

[magicdaps10]

True. We seemed to carry more injuries this season with our weakest squad for perhaps 15 years. Duff was a poor fit for us, but don't blame him. We struggled at first under Williams but unusually for us were able to put away poor sides away from home. Ultimately we finish mid-table with an average squad and within a handful of points of a Cardiff team who were promotion contenders in the Autumn. A better start next season would give us an outside play off chance.

Movement has been shocking from the top end for a long time now.

 

[Dr. Winston]

Did we really have a squad good enough for the play offs last season?!

The results in the run in when Martin finally pulled his head out of his arse and played to their strengths instead of sticking to his idiot process and whining about his lack of support would certainly suggest that it could have at least challenged, which is what I said.

 

[magicdaps10]

The results in the run in when Martin finally pulled his head out of his arse and played to their strengths instead of sticking to his idiot process and whining about his lack of support would certainly suggest that it could have at least challenged, which is what I said.

Quite possible. Was it a case of playing to the strengths or finally getting things to gel........its certainly open for debate.
Unfortunately for us, a season is over 46 games and not a dozen or so.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

In summer 2021, we had to hand back Guehi and Woodman, and lost Connor Roberts, Ayew and Lowe. A year later we lost Flynn Downes, the best CDM we've had in years, and we didn't do a deal for Christie, because we wouldn't pay his wages. In all instances we replaced with inferior quality players, or in some cases we didn't even bother replacing them at all.

How that was apparently conducive to a play off challenge is beyond me. And this squad now is even worse again after we lost Piroe, Manning and Ntcham.

The squad's been in steep decline ever since the parachute payments ran out after Cooper's last season. The club is skint and can't afford decent players, largely because it's not being run properly. The idea we should have been challenging for the play offs these last 2 or 3 years is cloud cuckoo land.

 

[Dr. Winston]

It's certainly open for debate.

I guess it's open for debate in much the same way as People who think that whether the Planet Earth is a sphere or not is open for debate.

 

[A4Jack]

Realistically our squad last year (as it started before disagreements with certain players) should absolutely have been in contention for the play-offs. Obafemi (a firing one at that), Piroe, Ntcham and Manning. Coventry seem to love Latibeaudiere at right back too.

 

[Smurph]

Did we really have a squad good enough for the play offs last season?!
It was certainly a divide in fans views on this which made it clear that it wasn't clearly the case. You had ones who stated the squad was too 6 quality but they tended to be the ones who didn't like Martin......and ones who didn't want to give too much of an expectation who as you say might have been fans of Martin. Somewhere in between all that there was people who had a sense of reality on the whole situation.
Who was right.......its really an open book for the correct answer.

This season for me as been an absolute mess from the summer right up until January with worry and frustration since, only the last month has there been a bit of hope reinstalled.

We finished 3 points off sixth place, despite going nearly half a season without winning a game. That would suggest with a better manager, that team could have made the play offs.

 

[JackSomething]

We finished 3 points off sixth place, despite going nearly half a season without winning a game. That would suggest with a better manager, that team could have made the play offs.

I'm sure Martin's biggest fans would make the counter-argument that he motivated a poor squad who couldn't win a game for months to put in a great late season run and almost sneak into the playoffs.

It's useful to look at how his Southampton team have done this season for comparison. Although they sold a load of players in the summer, they retained a good number of PL proven players and recruited plenty more with PL experience or quality Championship players. Most people would have had them as strong favourites to be promoted this season.

They opened with 3 wins and a draw, then lost the next 4 games. They then went on a very impressive 22 game unbeaten run and climbed to 2nd. At this point, they looked likely to go up automatically. They then lost 3 of the next 4, rallied to only lose 1 in 8, but are now on a run of 3 losses in a row.

So patches of great form, mixed with runs where they can't win a game. Pretty much a carbon copy of Russ' time here, except the great runs last longer and the poor runs end quicker. Which would be expected when he has a much better team. At some point, even his biggest fans have to acknowledge the pattern.

 

[Smurph]

I'm sure Martin's biggest fans would make the counter-argument that he motivated a poor squad who couldn't win a game for months to put in a great late season run and almost sneak into the playoffs.

It's useful to look at how his Southampton team have done this season for comparison. Although they sold a load of players in the summer, they retained a good number of PL proven players and recruited plenty more with PL experience or quality Championship players. Most people would have had them as strong favourites to be promoted this season.

They opened with 3 wins and a draw, then lost the next 4 games. They then went on a very impressive 22 game unbeaten run and climbed to 2nd. At this point, they looked likely to go up automatically. They then lost 3 of the next 4, rallied to only lose 1 in 8, but are now on a run of 3 losses in a row.

So patches of great form, mixed with runs where they can't win a game. Pretty much a carbon copy of Russ' time here, except the great runs last longer and the poor runs end quicker. Which would be expected when he has a much better team. At some point, even his biggest fans have to acknowledge the pattern.

Simply put, he's not as good as he or others think.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

I'm sure Martin's biggest fans would make the counter-argument that he motivated a poor squad who couldn't win a game for months to put in a great late season run and almost sneak into the playoffs.

It's useful to look at how his Southampton team have done this season for comparison. Although they sold a load of players in the summer, they retained a good number of PL proven players and recruited plenty more with PL experience or quality Championship players. Most people would have had them as strong favourites to be promoted this season.

They opened with 3 wins and a draw, then lost the next 4 games. They then went on a very impressive 22 game unbeaten run and climbed to 2nd. At this point, they looked likely to go up automatically. They then lost 3 of the next 4, rallied to only lose 1 in 8, but are now on a run of 3 losses in a row.

So patches of great form, mixed with runs where they can't win a game. Pretty much a carbon copy of Russ' time here, except the great runs last longer and the poor runs end quicker. Which would be expected when he has a much better team. At some point, even his biggest fans have to acknowledge the pattern.

So what you're saying is: manager goes to better run club, that has better players and better financial resources, and achieves better results, whilst playing exactly the same way as he did at the inferior-run club with inferior players and resources.

Funnily enough, his two immediate predecessors also went on to bigger and better things after leaving here.

Yep, there's a pattern there alright...

 

[JackSomething]

So what you're saying is: manager goes to better run club, that has better players and better financial resources, and achieves better results, whilst playing exactly the same way as he did at the inferior-run club with inferior players and resources.

Funnily enough, his two immediate predecessors also went on to bigger and better things after leaving here.

Yep, there's a pattern there alright...

The pattern is that he changes his tactics/style of play and gets results, then eventually resorts to his preferred method of football and results inevitably decline.

I'm not positive, but I think it's unusual also for a manager to have such odd runs of results. Most teams fluctuate, yet Martin's teams tend to either be on a winning run or a losing run.

All those things are better at Southampton, yet he's still under-performing. He has also done nothing in his management career to bear comparison with Cooper or Potter.