Charlie Kirk

[jack123]

Awful, must admit I’d never heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday, now my X feed is full of previous debates.

Hopefully they catch the culprit!

 

[Pompeyjack]

Interesting reading this and I can see a multitude of sides on this.

For me in the little I’ve seen of Kirk I was impressed by his intellect and his bravery in going into the lions den which has ultimately led to his demise.

There’s a screenshot on this thread which speaks volumes with regards the hard left. They are not his views, I’m no expert on what his belief system but fundamentally that is biased take that has twisted what he has been saying and this is ultimately why there’s so much toxicity.

If you have anything about you and have any level of integrity you will debate and listen to people with a different viewpoint. This man did that whether you like him or not and was true to his belief system in debate and freedom of speech.

I personally do not agree with a lot of what he says eg abortion. Although I am certainly open minded with advance in medical science of a more conservative position on the subject. There is nothing inherently evil about finding abortion immoral quite the opposite in fact. That is a perfect example of an area in which debate should be legitimate and heard from different perspectives. Instead we just get “you’re a nazi” from leftists.

Trump and MAGA did not come out of a vacuum. People really need to wake up and truly look deep with themselves to understand why this has happened.

All I can feel on this fundamentally is how sad it is for his young family.

You put your point across perfectly .

 

[rockinj]

You put your point across perfectly .

Thank you Sir.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

There’s a screenshot on this thread which speaks volumes with regards the hard left. They are not his views, I’m no expert on what his belief system but fundamentally that is biased take that has twisted what he has been saying and this is ultimately why there’s so much toxicity.

Frankly, you're talking bollocks.

Charlie Kirk in his own words: ‘prowling Blacks’ and ‘the great replacement strategy’

The far-right commentator didn’t pull his punches when discussing his reactionary views on current events

www.theguardian.com

 

[Smurph]

Frankly, you're talking bollocks.

Charlie Kirk in his own words: ‘prowling Blacks’ and ‘the great replacement strategy’

The far-right commentator didn’t pull his punches when discussing his reactionary views on current events

www.theguardian.com

It wouldn't be the first time.....

 

[rockinj]

if you strip out context that sounds horrendous.

But let’s just take the first one on black pilots it’s a criticism of affirmative action.

It’s a verbal flourish to create a reaction which it has done.

Can you not see you play their game beautifully?

I’m not defending the views I dont agree with his views I’m not extreme right.

I’m simply trying to explain why there are issues with dialogue between people with different viewpoints.

 

[Pentyrchjack]

Shocking incident and ironic the President who faked his own near-miss assassination has now lost his buddy in a real life attempt.

 

[rockinj]

It’s interesting that people think this is a gotcha when it’s actually making my points even more clear.

There’s no democracy if we seek to just take people out of context, shut down views we don’t like and gang up on people with a herd mentality to shut down debate.

The Charlie Kirks of the world are incredibly smart at using rhetoric as a tool. This is something that the best political operators use effectively “rivers of blood” is a perfect example of rhetoric.

Tony Benn understood this. Modern leftists will never get it.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

if you strip out context that sounds horrendous.

But let’s just take the first one on black pilots it’s a criticism of affirmative action.

It’s a verbal flourish to create a reaction which it has done.

Can you not see you play their game beautifully?

I’m not defending the views I dont agree with his views I’m not extreme right.

I’m simply trying to explain why there are issues with dialogue between people with different viewpoints.

I'm not playing any game pal, and I'm not a "leftist" either, whatever tf that means.

He has come out and essentially said, I don't trust black pilots. That's racism.

There's no issues with dialogue there, or any "leftist" bias. The guy was straight up a racist.

Very weird you're trying to sort of defend or justify it tbh.

 

[Longlostjack]

It’s interesting that people think this is a gotcha when it’s actually making my points even more clear.

There’s no democracy if we seek to just take people out of context, shut down views we don’t like and gang up on people with a herd mentality to shut down debate.

The Charlie Kirks of the world are incredibly smart at using rhetoric as a tool. This is something that the best political operators use effectively “rivers of blood” is a perfect example of rhetoric.

Tony Benn understood this. Modern leftists will never get it.

You were making some sense until you let your guard slip by doing precisely what you pretended to condemn. Shutting down debate by labelling people with the term leftists. You could have thrown in remoaners for good measure.

 

[rockinj]

I'm not playing any game pal, and I'm not a "leftist" either, whatever tf that means.

He has come out and essentially said, I don't trust black pilots. That's racism.

There's no issues with dialogue there, or any "leftist" bias. The guy was straight up a racist.

Very weird you're trying to sort of defend or justify it tbh.

It’s hardly a particularly difficult leap to make “leftist” leftie left winger whatever you want to use. It wasn’t directed at you personally.

I’ve tried many times on here to have more interesting debates but it always drifts this way. I’m not defending his views, I’ve already said that I’m simply explaining what he was doing and why the classic “he’s racist” is precisely what he wants you to come back with.

That’s all it’s been for 20 bloody years now, he’s a racist, he’s a sexist, he’s …..

What have we got for this level of debate? MAGA. Reform. Le Pen. Far right Govs everywhere you turn. People are sick of it and the grifters and ideologues on the right have played off this.

I just don’t think you understand the points I’m making because your default position is set in stone and on we go while the few of us out there trying to steer a course back to the centre and sanity just despair.

 

[rockinj]

You were making some sense until you let your guard slip by doing precisely what you pretended to condemn. Shutting down debate by labelling people with the term leftists. You could have thrown in remoaners for good measure.

Leftists are what keeps the MAGA dream alive.

I am a remoaner btw

 

[Captain_Sham]

I finally put on the hazmat suit and went back on twitter, altough I am not watching that video. The very first thing I saw was this. Im not a conservative by any means, but on reflection it appears to apply to myself to a degree on certain issues, mainly Gender Politics. My views are pretty much what they have always been but as the world changes I end up going further right by the day. Im not posting this to antagonise, its just something that does appear to be happening, whoever is causing it. I think this what Andrew was talking about.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

I finally put on the hazmat suit and went back on twitter, altough I am not watching that video. The very first thing I saw was this. Im not a conservative by any means, but on reflection it appears to apply to myself to a degree on certain issues, mainly Gender Politics. My views are pretty much what they have always been but as the world changes I end up going further right by the day. Im not posting this to antagonise, its just something that does appear to be happening, whoever is causing it. I think this what Andrew was talking about. View attachment 6687

If I’m understanding that diagram correctly it implies that “the right” has held its positions and “the left” has marched inexorably further to the extremes. In my view that’s demonstrably untrue. While I wouldn’t argue that some elements of “the left” have become more or extreme, when you consider the political discourse now I don’t see how anyone can argue that “the right” hasn’t done the same. When I was younger “the right” was that of Thatcher, Reagan and Major. Now it’s Farage, Tice, Lowe, Badenoch, Yaxley Lennon. The first three would have found the second group completely unhinged and distasteful. The biggest “left” party in the UK has Starmer, a fairly pragmatic centrist, as its leader. In the US it’s in disarray but its last leader was Biden. Again, hardly a bastion of extreme leftism. I can see how that diagram holds comfort for those who like to think that their own positions haven’t changed but everyone else’s has though. There’s a a lot of that self delusion about now. (Last two sentences not aimed at you but a general observation).

 

[Neath_Jack]

Isn’t it a shame we don’t see this outpouring of grief and shock on here about the thousands of innocent women and kids who are still being slaughtered in Gaza.

I’ve watched the clip a few times again today in the gym.