Charlie Kirk

[exiledclaseboy]

Let’s go back to the example about black pilots.

If someone is politically right wing and against affirmative action (people placed in employment potentially above their skill set based on race/sex etc)

If the view is taken that they’d feel uncomfortable with someone black flying the plane because they were worried about them being under qualified to fly based on affirmative action is this the same as a simply not wanting them to fly the plane because they are black

This is the nuance that is very important here.

Kirk from what I can see has a fan base with those from an immigrant background who hold old fashioned conservative views eg nuclear family with woman in the home.

You can fundamentally disagree with that position but it’s a viewpoint. It was very much the thinking up until around the 1960s and there is a growing movement in the states that is favouring a return to this position.

Again I’m not saying I agree with any of this. But as many on this thread are demonstrating having conservative positions is simply something they find uncomfortable.

I don’t believe this level of discourse existed in the past when people could argue with each other and then have a pint.

I don’t know why you’re badgering me about black pilots I haven’t mentioned them or Kirk’s view on them. For what it’s worth my view is that I’d be concerned about getting on a plane piloted by someone who wasn’t qualified to fly it. I’d have thought that would be an obvious view for anyone to take. If someone’s view is that they’re scared to get on a plane because the pilot is unqualified then that’s perfectly understandable. If someone is scared to get on a plane because the pilot is black and they think he may be unqualified because of some mythical affirmative action policy whereby airline are employing the nearest unqualified black person just to fill a quota then that person is both an idiot and a racist. The “black pilot” thing is just another is a long list of bete noirs or the “new far right” that if they repeat often enough plenty of people will accept as a fact.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

If the view is taken that they’d feel uncomfortable with someone black flying the plane because they were worried about them being under qualified to fly based on affirmative action is this the same as a simply not wanting them to fly the plane because they are black

This is the nuance that is very important here

What kind of nonsense is this?

There isn't any nuance there. Both things are the same thing - racist.

A pilot has to undergo thousands of hours of training to get their stripes. Air travel is subject to probably the most rigourous set of checks and balances of any profession, and with good reason.

The idea they've been fast tracked through the system because of their colour of their skin is both thick as shit and, once more, racist.

 

[MrSwerve]

Let’s go back to the example about black pilots.

If someone is politically right wing and against affirmative action (people placed in employment potentially above their skill set based on race/sex etc)

If the view is taken that they’d feel uncomfortable with someone black flying the plane because they were worried about them being under qualified to fly based on affirmative action is this the same as a simply not wanting them to fly the plane because they are black

This is the nuance that is very important here.

Kirk from what I can see has a fan base with those from an immigrant background who hold old fashioned conservative views eg nuclear family with woman in the home.

You can fundamentally disagree with that position but it’s a viewpoint. It was very much the thinking up until around the 1960s and there is a growing movement in the states that is favouring a return to this position.

Again I’m not saying I agree with any of this. But as many on this thread are demonstrating having conservative positions is simply something they find uncomfortable.

I don’t believe this level of discourse existed in the past when people could argue with each other and then have a pint.

Well done for saving me the effort. He didn’t say ‘I hate black pilots’ and various other quotes flying around. It was within a DEI discussion. I’m sure there was probably an element to rile people up who scream ‘racist’ immediately after reading the quote, but that’s part of what he did (which ultimately led to his demise).

Edit: not that I agree that DEI has had any effect on the piloting profession, btw.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

Edit: not that I agree that DEI has had any effect on the piloting profession, btw.

Which makes it an intensely stupid example.

 

[MrSwerve]

Which makes it an intensely stupid example.

Exactly.

 

[rockinj]

What kind of nonsense is this?

There isn't any nuance there. Both things are the same thing - racist.

A pilot has to undergo thousands of hours of training to get their stripes. Air travel is subject to probably the most rigourous set of checks and balances of any profession, and with good reason.

The idea they've been fast tracked through the system because of their colour of their skin is both thick as shit and, once more, racist.

You’ll never get will you.

MrSwerve above does thankfully.

My personal view is that the idea someone would get a job flying a plane based on affirmative action is clearly nonsense. That’s right wing conspiracy theory area.

However IF that is the case would you be comfortable being in a plane with someone given the job based on who they are and not what they achieved I wouldn’t.

That’s the rhetorical flourish in a debate and that’s why it gets supporters and detractors which creates noise which in the modern world is clicks and engagement.

Let’s take it back and he said I wouldn’t want a woman pilot. That sounds sexist. Yes it does. But it’s without debating context.

I’m trying to explain his popularity. Why don’t you get this?

 

[exiledclaseboy]

You’ll never get will you.

MrSwerve above does thankfully.

My personal view is that the idea someone would get a job flying a plane based on affirmative action is clearly nonsense. That’s right wing conspiracy theory area.

However IF that is the case would you be comfortable being in a plane with someone given the job based on who they are and not what they achieved I wouldn’t.

That’s the rhetorical flourish in a debate and that’s why it gets supporters and detractors which creates noise which in the modern world is clicks and engagement.

Let’s take it back and he said I wouldn’t want a woman pilot. That sounds sexist. Yes it does. But it’s without debating context.

I’m trying to explain his popularity. Why don’t you get this?

You’re trying and failing badly to show the rest of us how much cleverer you are than us because you understand stuff us plebs don’t. Give it up mush. It’s embarrassing all round.

 

[rockinj]

You’re trying and failing badly to show the rest of us how much cleverer you are this us because you understand stuff us plebs don’t. Give it up mush. It’s embarrassing all round.

I’m really not mate. I really thought you’d engage with what I’m saying. I’m a little disappointed that you’ve taken this road.

I am desperate to stop the march of the likes of MAGA and I’ve been really interested in how we can stop reform etc.

If we don’t really understand why this is happening we’re fucked.

But it’s fine. Let’s just leave it there.

 

[ThurrockJack]

I’m really not mate. I really thought you’d engage with what I’m saying. I’m a little disappointed that you’ve taken this road.

I am desperate to stop the march of the likes of MAGA and I’ve been really interested in how we can stop reform etc.

If we don’t really understand why this is happening we’re fucked.

But it’s fine. Let’s just leave it there.

I kind of get where you are coming from but I don't think it will work. Most of the people who support these movements operate entirely on vibes and don't really care about people's actual positions. Keir Starmer is the least ideological and pragmatic PM we have had for some time, but to the right wing rags and Facebook nutjobs he may as well be Marx himself. The only counter is to stop creating these types of people and the only way to stop that is to reverse the continuing decrease in standard of living. Fringe leftist ideas or people being somewhat uncharitable to their opponents view is little more than a trigger imo, the root cause is the economy.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

You’ll never get will you.

MrSwerve above does thankfully.

My personal view is that the idea someone would get a job flying a plane based on affirmative action is clearly nonsense. That’s right wing conspiracy theory area.

However IF that is the case would you be comfortable being in a plane with someone given the job based on who they are and not what they achieved I wouldn’t.

That’s the rhetorical flourish in a debate and that’s why it gets supporters and detractors which creates noise which in the modern world is clicks and engagement.

Let’s take it back and he said I wouldn’t want a woman pilot. That sounds sexist. Yes it does. But it’s without debating context.

I’m trying to explain his popularity. Why don’t you get this?

Oh, I get his popularity alright. Same as I get why Farage, Johnson, Trump etc appeal to a certain group of people.

I haven't got a bloody clue what you're banging on about though. You've just told everyone in the space of a couple of paragraphs there how you're both comfortable and uncomfortable with the thought of a black pilot flying your plane. It really can't be both mate. You have to decide.

 

[Smurph]

I’m really not mate. I really thought you’d engage with what I’m saying. I’m a little disappointed that you’ve taken this road.

I am desperate to stop the march of the likes of MAGA and I’ve been really interested in how we can stop reform etc.

If we don’t really understand why this is happening we’re fucked.

But it’s fine. Let’s just leave it there.

Have you thought about chaining yourself to the American Embassy in London?

 

[MrSwerve]

I’m really not mate. I really thought you’d engage with what I’m saying. I’m a little disappointed that you’ve taken this road.

I am desperate to stop the march of the likes of MAGA and I’ve been really interested in how we can stop reform etc.

If we don’t really understand why this is happening we’re fucked.

But it’s fine. Let’s just leave it there.

You're trying to engage.

I post on many fora and this is one of the worst for these kinds of debates, as much as JANET f*cking rocks. You can't have a debate about political differences. It always ends up with someone being called a c*nt or racist or bigot within the first page or so. It's almost like JANET's version of Godwin's law.

 

[Pompeyjack]

Let’s go back to the example about black pilots.

If someone is politically right wing and against affirmative action (people placed in employment potentially above their skill set based on race/sex etc)

If the view is taken that they’d feel uncomfortable with someone black flying the plane because they were worried about them being under qualified to fly based on affirmative action is this the same as a simply not wanting them to fly the plane because they are black

This is the nuance that is very important here.

Kirk from what I can see has a fan base with those from an immigrant background who hold old fashioned conservative views eg nuclear family with woman in the home.

You can fundamentally disagree with that position but it’s a viewpoint. It was very much the thinking up until around the 1960s and there is a growing movement in the states that is favouring a return to this position.

Again I’m not saying I agree with any of this. But as many on this thread are demonstrating having conservative positions is simply something they find uncomfortable.

I don’t believe this level of discourse existed in the past when people could argue with each other and then have a pint.

Your last paragraph sums up perfectly how I feel. Some people online are given the opportunity to say whatever they want, that maybe they wouldn't say to someone's face. I have no doubt whatsoever that if everyone on here were to meet for a chat, have a pint, a debate about the world, the rights and wrongs, have a laugh and all return home in 1 piece

 

[MrSwerve]

Re: Faux grief; I don't doubt that there's also faux condemnation from some, where they say that this is an awful thing to happen, but really are glad that 'he got what was coming to him'.

 

[Squarebear]

It's perhaps a bit soon but I've done some research and Mrs Kirk isn't bad looking.