Local elections

[rockinj]

Well, quite.

I mean, if you are thick enough to vote for them to begin with, then you are definitely going to fall for it when they start blaming whatever boogiemen they invent when things start to go wrong (and they will) on their watch.

“Small boats”

Not a proper brexit

It’s literally one of the key reasons why we have them.

Immigration has tripled. But they keep buying it.

We’re still in the ECHR!!!

Yes Mr Nob it’s not an EU institution. It’s a separate entity and why would that make YOUR life better by scrapping it.

Pointless even saying all this stuff isn’t it.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

I don’t see the point of dismissing all Reform voters as “thick” either. It’s not how you win arguments. Even though it may be true. Politics in the UK is in huge danger of going the same way as Trump’s USA. Be more Carney and less Harris. Council workers in Durham have already been told to look for other jobs by Dear Leader Farage. Well done, voters of Durham. This is on you. But imagine it nationwide. A year till the Senedd elections, four years until the next general election. There’s time but the sensible parties need to step up and make the argument. Shouting “RACIST” isn’t going to cut it because most of them are, they don’t care and are proud of it and they’re now the mainstream. So the rest of us need to be better.

 

[monmouth]

I don’t see the point of dismissing all Reform voters as “thick” either. It’s not how you win arguments. Even though it may be true. Politics in the UK is in huge danger of going the same way as Trump’s USA. Be more Carney and less Harris. Council workers in Durham have already been told to look for other jobs by Dear Leader Farage. Well done, voters of Durham. This is on you. But imagine it nationwide. A year till the Senedd elections, four years until the next general election. There’s time but the sensible parties need to step up and make the argument. Shouting “RACIST” isn’t going to cut it because most of them are, they don’t care and are proud of it and they’re now the mainstream. So the rest of us need to be better.

More Carney, Less Harris is critical, and Starmer is simply not up to it. A middle manager.

 

[jack123]

Ha ha, an absolute catastrophe for Labour, good bloody job as well. There’s no clear winner here, they are all crap. But it’s quite funny, after all the palava of Tory rule, Labour step in. And immediately muck it up. Absolute tosspots.

 

[Jack2jack]

Farage is a vacuous disruptor plain and simple. Dont like the bloke. That's me out.

 

[rockinj]

More Carney, Less Harris is critical, and Starmer is simply not up to it. A middle manager.

I think there’s a lot of truth to this.

Starmer is fundamentally a good man but a poor communicator. He doesn’t have that skill set which is unbelievably underrated.

Think back to Blair he was brilliant at it and to persuade people you need those skills.

But he could win on this style if he’d be willing to challenge I think. He’s just playing a very very straight bat. His detailed Gordon Brown style way could work if he played to his strengths but he must be willing to take risks not this never ending cautious approach on issues that he could change things for better

Eg levison, Brexit, prison reform

 

[rockinj]

Ha ha, an absolute catastrophe for Labour, good bloody job as well. There’s no clear winner here, they are all crap. But it’s quite funny, after all the palava of Tory rule, Labour step in. And immediately muck it up. Absolute tosspots.

They’re all crap. That old chestnut

 

[Londonlisa2001]

On a more practical level, now that Reform have control of a few councils and mayoralties they’ll have to actually run stuff, provide public services, allocate budgets, make difficult choices and then stand by them. Y’know, actually govern. Protest votes are great in theory until they have real world consequences.

Yup.

In some ways I’m rather glad that they’ll have the chance to run things before the things they could run impacted me in any way. I’d rather the people of Durham found out than the UK. Because if they remained a protest party people wouldn’t have the chance to find out before it became too late.

They’ll soon find that sacking a few equalities officers won’t balance the budget or allow them to find the money needed for adult social care.

 

[jack123]

They’re all crap. That old chestnut

Well, it’s not really an old chestnut. From what they said on the news earlier, the disdain for Starmer and the current Labour Party has never happened before.

As in they win the general election, and within a year. Nobody likes them. Losing by elections. It’s quite unprecedented.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Well, it’s not really an old chestnut. From what they said on the news earlier, the disdain for Starmer and the current Labour Party has never happened before.

As in they win the general election, and within a year. Nobody likes them. Losing by elections. It’s quite unprecedented.

You think it’s unprecedented for the incumbent government to lose a by-election?

Oh, and it’s not the case that nobody likes them is it? if you take Runcorn given you’re talking about by-elections, 3 people was the difference between Reform (brilliant, fantastic, new heroes, what a performance), and Labour (absolute pasting, completely shite, no one likes them, people have nothing but disdain).

 

[rockinj]

Well, it’s not really an old chestnut. From what they said on the news earlier, the disdain for Starmer and the current Labour Party has never happened before.

As in they win the general election, and within a year. Nobody likes them. Losing by elections. It’s quite unprecedented.

Have you ever considered that the media narrative might play a massive role in people’s views?

Eg if George Osborne had done what Labour did on winter fuel I bet they would have said makes sense we can’t afford it “people need to do their bit”

That’s one example

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

I don’t see the point of dismissing all Reform voters as “thick” either. It’s not how you win arguments. Even though it may be true. Politics in the UK is in huge danger of going the same way as Trump’s USA. Be more Carney and less Harris. Council workers in Durham have already been told to look for other jobs by Dear Leader Farage. Well done, voters of Durham. This is on you. But imagine it nationwide. A year till the Senedd elections, four years until the next general election. There’s time but the sensible parties need to step up and make the argument. Shouting “RACIST” isn’t going to cut it because most of them are, they don’t care and are proud of it and they’re now the mainstream. So the rest of us need to be better.

True, its possible that some of them aren't thick, it's not one homogenous mass. I'm sure there are one or two bright people who are genuinely invested in Reform and would consider themselves fully informed and have gone in eyes wide open. I still reckon the vast majority of them are thick though.

I suppose it all boils down to the fact that I don't have a lot of sympathy (a) for people who continually vote against their own interests and/or (b) people who don't do their homework before casting their vote. It's not difficult to read up on politicians and parties, in this day and age it's easier than ever, there is no excuse for being misinformed imo.

As for it not being how you win arguments, then that depends whether you're in it to have an argument in the first place. Me personally, I just prefer to mind my own business and make sure I can look at myself in the mirror when I vote and it ends there for me. I'm not really interested in persuading anyone to change or debate their choices, got far better things to do with my time and in most cases it's going to be utterly futile anyway.

 

[jack123]

You think it’s unprecedented for the incumbent government to lose a by-election?

Oh, and it’s not the case that nobody likes them is it? if you take Runcorn given you’re talking about by-elections, 3 people was the difference between Reform (brilliant, fantastic, new heroes, what a performance), and Labour (absolute pasting, completely shite, no one likes them, people have nothing but disdain).

Oh gosh. Please pick up the toys on the floor, from below the pram.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Oh gosh. Please pick up the toys on the floor, from below the pram.

Given I don’t live in an area which stands any chance whatsoever of having Reform represent me my toys are firmly in place thanks.

Nice deflection though. Did you think we wouldn’t notice?