More financial goings on

[magicdaps10]

Anyone confirm that Nigel Morris is not part of this American group?

And

Cravatt and Coleman are part of Swansea football LLC group?

 

[jasper_T]

Anyone confirm that Nigel Morris is not part of this American group?

And

Cravatt and Coleman are part of Swansea football LLC group?

https://www.swanseacity.com/club/ownership-statement

Shareholders owning 10% or more of the issued share capital in the ultimate holding company are:

Andy Coleman, Stephen Kaplan & Jason Levien (via Swansea Football LLC) - 69.32%
Nigel Morris – 16.13%
Swansea City Supporters Society Ltd – 10.67% (including its protected 5.00% ownership position).

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

Thank you so much Lisa for continuing to keep an eye on these things and especially for coming on here and explaining the issues to us. The Trust don't do that properly anymore and, actually, cannot be relied upon for any purpose whatsoever.

Yes, agreed on all points. Thanks Lisa.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

The club doesn't have to pay back that debt. Apologies if it's not the right terminology but it's money that was put into the club that is no longer owed back out at a later date, or is costing the club interest.

It is owed back in the end though as they took extra ownership of the club. When debt is converted an amount owed as a debt is exchanged for a percentage ownership of the company. In other words, instead of the club owing Swansea Football LLC that £16m, they take £16m ‘extra’ ownership of the club.

It makes a difference when it’s external debt if we have less, but when it’s to the owners it makes no real difference.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Nope but someone replied to a different thread from the Trust and said they were “hopeful” the club may clarify it

Lol.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Thank you so much Lisa for continuing to keep an eye on these things and especially for coming on here and explaining the issues to us. The Trust don't do that properly anymore and, actually, cannot be relied upon for any purpose whatsoever.

Thanks. That’s really kind. I hope it’s useful to have some stuff given a bit of explanation as there’s so much rumour flying around. Not helped, as you say, by the Trust seemingly keeping radio silence on the main forums which is a huge shame.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Anyone confirm that Nigel Morris is not part of this American group?

And

Cravatt and Coleman are part of Swansea football LLC group?

Just an aside to say no mention has as yet been made of any investment from Cravatt on companies house or elsewhere unless he was part of the £10m put in by Swansea Football LLC. I doubt it though as no mention was made at the time, only that at least some of that £10m was from Coleman.

 

[Niigata Jack]

It is owed back in the end though as they took extra ownership of the club. When debt is converted an amount owed as a debt is exchanged for a percentage ownership of the company. In other words, instead of the club owing Swansea Football LLC that £16m, they take £16m ‘extra’ ownership of the club.

It makes a difference when it’s external debt if we have less, but when it’s to the owners it makes no real difference.

So there is debt at the club then, just dressed up in all the share's being made available?

When it comes to the end game what happens then, because there's a possibility that the debt will end up greater than the valuation of the club itself, I understand that the new shares have come from the dilution of shares owned by other's, but for other's to agree to have they slice diluted there has to be a price to be paid to those diluted? I'd never agree to it unless I had received a payment.

 

[magicdaps10]

So all these other clubs must have been quacking in their boots with all the money we were having invested and Nigel Morris isn't part of the American lot!? Well I be damned

And in other news, what we spent was what we had in first.......the push on Yates and Key early doors was just the Obafemi money with a little help from Kyle Joseph and from there on in only spent after we had money come in.

I feel like one of those pesky kids from scooby doo now

 

[Cinio Dydd Sul]

https://www.swanseacity.com/club/ownership-statement

Shareholders owning 10% or more of the issued share capital in the ultimate holding company are:

Andy Coleman, Stephen Kaplan & Jason Levien (via Swansea Football LLC) - 69.32%
Nigel Morris – 16.13%
Swansea City Supporters Society Ltd – 10.67% (including its protected 5.00% ownership position).

What happened to Silversteins stake then? He paid more than Morris didn't he?

 

[jasper_T]

It is owed back in the end though as they took extra ownership of the club. When debt is converted an amount owed as a debt is exchanged for a percentage ownership of the company. In other words, instead of the club owing Swansea Football LLC that £16m, they take £16m ‘extra’ ownership of the club.

It makes a difference when it’s external debt if we have less, but when it’s to the owners it makes no real difference.

So in effect the investment of that first £16m happened when they created the CLNs and Silverstein joined the board, and it didn't matter if/when it was converted to equity? I thought there was concern at the time that a conversion wouldn't happen given a lack of timetable or guarantees, and it didn't count as actual investment into the club?

 

[jasper_T]

What happened to Silversteins stake then? He paid more than Morris didn't he?

He may have been diluted below 10%, or cashed out some portion when he joined his shares with the LLC. Think he put in less £ than Morris, though. The LLC was matching funding on the CLNs so maybe he only put in £5-8m?

 

[Cinio Dydd Sul]

He may have been diluted below 10%, or cashed out some portion when he joined his shares with the LLC. Think he put in less £ than Morris, though. The LLC was matching funding on the CLNs so maybe he only put in £5-8m?

Ah right, makes sense

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

Thanks. That’s really kind. I hope it’s useful to have some stuff given a bit of explanation as there’s so much rumour flying around. Not helped, as you say, by the Trust seemingly keeping radio silence on the main forums which is a huge shame.

It's very helpful Lisa, thank you, it's complicated stuff but you explain it in an understandable way.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

So there is debt at the club then, just dressed up in all the share's being made available?

When it comes to the end game what happens then, because there's a possibility that the debt will end up greater than the valuation of the club itself, I understand that the new shares have come from the dilution of shares owned by other's, but for other's to agree to have they slice diluted there has to be a price to be paid to those diluted? I'd never agree to it unless I had received a payment.

It’s the other way round.

If the debt is owed to the owners it’s a bit neither here nor there as the only people they hurt by calling it in is themselves. The shareholders get everything left after debt is paid (broadly) so if they owe themselves £10m it doesn’t matter too much as the6 either pay themselves £10m via debt or equity.

The only people it matters to are shareholders that sit outside that. So, in our case the trust and other minority shareholders, who would prefer the debt to be converted. That’s why they did it before Morris came in.