Russ out?

[STID2017]

This is how you play out of the back -

[media]https://youtu.be/GqFQ_SU7ATw[/media]

Rodgers knew the score - you have to be tenacious, you have to move the ball quickly, and you have to drill players on their role. Listen to Jazz Richards' episode of the AiC Podcast, and Ashley Williams' episode of the Longman Football Podcast. They explains Rodgers' philosophy down to a tee.

Now it's unfair of me to compare Martin to Rodgers. But Martin should take a leaf out of Rodgers' book. Both with the way you drill these players, and the style. But also on adapting to be a winner. Rodgers didn't mind changing the style or grinding out ugly results. I remember us sh*t housing so many games that season, albeit we had guys like Dobbie who just didn't stop working. But that's what we need now, a few scrappy wins to build confidence and a more sensible style of play.

If he isn't willing to adapt, and the players don't click, then he's gone - whether I want him to or not.

Not sure if this makes sense, but just my two cents

Sweet Jesus - watching that made me weep at show shine we have become

Yes was hard to watch. Same basic principle, except for me Grimes slows everything down so will never happen whilst he is in the team

 

[Best_loser]

Moan moan moan , people love to moan , moaned about Cooper for two years even though he got us into the play offs , now they are moaning that we are in a position everybody expected us to be , Martin is going nowhere right now , all that's expected of him is to keep us in the championship

 

[JustJack]

Which others?

We have a 12 point gap, which I accept is down to points deductions

It's not a case of s**t or bust where a replacement merits the throw of the dice.

Cardiff were struggling last year before bringing McCarthy in
Forest were struggling this season before bringing Cooper in
Middlesbrough were struggling prior to bringing Wilder in
We had Clement and Guidolin who both came to us when struggling and kept us up, plus Carvalhal who started well but then bottled it. He could easily have kept us up
Go back further to John Bond, Brian Flynn, and probaly many more.
Of course it works !

Survivors bias really, I would argue that there an equal amount of cases where it flops, otherwise, if it was a certain thing then consquently a team would do it every time they were in the relegation zone.

 

[J_B]

We’re a club in decline. Cooper saw it and knew he couldn’t improve his stock by staying here. We could sack Martin and pay him and his staff off with money that we clearly don’t have. Then we’d look for someone else on low wages and get a load of uninspiring people to choose from. Young, up and coming manager is the model that we like and Martin fitted that well. If we’re not in league one by 2024 I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[BLAZE]

Moan moan moan , people love to moan , moaned about Cooper for two years even though he got us into the play offs , now they are moaning that we are in a position everybody expected us to be

Nailed it.

I suppose those complaining now aren't necessarily the same people who were complaining about Cooper, but I'd bet most are. Feels like some people revel in it TBH.

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

He's got to be given time to drill these donkey's regardless of if we go down, if he takes us down next season he'll have to get us back up. We can't keep resetting every season in the slim hope that it'll magically work. Which ever way you dress it up one of the magic ingredients is money and lots of it, we dont have that so our chances of success are slim with the type of players we can afford. Forget our time in the premiership that's dead and long gone.

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

Moan moan moan , people love to moan , moaned about Cooper for two years even though he got us into the play offs , now they are moaning that we are in a position everybody expected us to be

Nailed it.

I suppose those complaining now aren't necessarily the same people who were complaining about Cooper, but I'd bet most are. Feels like some people revel in it TBH.

Yep I'm guilty as charged, didn't like Cooper ball and although I think given time Martin ball will be better I just don't like us losing lots. I do love a moan for sure but only when it warrants it. What I do revel in is our success but it's dried up considerably.

What I will say is moaning on here is a form of release, like a good vent, which is what I thought the forum was about.

 

[BLAZE]

Yep, we're probably further off the Premier League now than we were under Martinez, and we don't have the good feeling and momentum anymore

Battling to stay in the Championship is probably our level but as a fanbase we're spoilt and conceited

 

[Swansea93]

Isn’t this identical to his first season at MK? Let’s hope we get enough points to see us into a proper pre season summer window with him and go from there

 

[Donnybackspin]

I think the problem is lack of investment and I don't think Jurgen Klopp could get a tune out of our current squad. But here's the difference he would have connections to bring players in on loan.
I agree with previous comments on Grines and players playing out of position to accommodate his favourites.
On a plus side the new keeper looks OK , Pato is coming back and hopefully the LWB from Shrewsbury can be ss good as Christie.

If we can get a few scrappy wins, and Piroe and Obafemi stop missing then I can see us going on a run. Hopefully it will thrn help us build momentum for next season.

I don't think we should sack him yet.

 

[Vetchonian]

I think the problem is lack of investment and I don't think Jurgen Klopp could get a tune out of our current squad. But here's the difference he would have connections to bring players in on loan.
I agree with previous comments on Grines and players playing out of position to accommodate his favourites.
On a plus side the new keeper looks OK , Pato is coming back and hopefully the LWB from Shrewsbury can be ss good as Christie.

If we can get a few scrappy wins, and Piroe and Obafemi stop missing then I can see us going on a run. Hopefully it will thrn help us build momentum for next season.

I don't think we should sack him yet.

This squad has lots of quality the problem is the style we are trying to play it didn't work at MKDONS and it's not working here.
Downs Pato Ntcham Wolf Piroe all quality added to Grimes,Fulton,Smith,Naughton Cabangko, Manning,Bennet who were the Nucleus of a team which got to the play off final....I reckon Klopp could do well with this

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

I’ve had doubt for a while. He likes to talk a good game about players being brave to play a clear and unique style, as if we’re knocking on the door of football perfection. Maybe he forgets we’ve seen masters at the possession & passing game in Martinez, Rodgers & Laudrup. They all realised that possession was a means to an end. Penetration was their first priority (especially Rodgers when he got that new bit on the side and got his teeth done).

But we occasionally see things that are pretty special, so I’m really not sure. Those two moves in the first half yesterday were sublime - the sort in the past we’d have seen Michu tucking away and they’d be played non-stop on highlight reels.

I’m wondering whether Winter isn’t as much, or more, of an issue. We were pretty lucky with Trevor Birch. We had no problems getting decent signings over the line, but that seems to have changed. Maybe that’s unfair as Birch had parachute payments, but you can only judge in results. We had a piss poor summer however you look at it. And this season is sh*t. PO finalists to looking over our shoulder at relegation.

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

I think the problem is lack of investment and I don't think Jurgen Klopp could get a tune out of our current squad. But here's the difference he would have connections to bring players in on loan.
I agree with previous comments on Grines and players playing out of position to accommodate his favourites.
On a plus side the new keeper looks OK , Pato is coming back and hopefully the LWB from Shrewsbury can be ss good as Christie.

If we can get a few scrappy wins, and Piroe and Obafemi stop missing then I can see us going on a run. Hopefully it will thrn help us build momentum for next season.

I don't think we should sack him yet.

This squad has lots of quality the problem is the style we are trying to play it didn't work at MKDONS and it's not working here.
Downs Pato Ntcham Wolf Piroe all quality added to Grimes,Fulton,Smith,Naughton Cabangko, Manning,Bennet who were the Nucleus of a team which got to the play off final....I reckon Klopp could do well with this

I disagree it has lots of quality. We’ve been weakened window on window. Last season’s squad had far more individual quality imo.

 

[Baron Goblet]

We rely a lot on Naughton. I have not seen Fulton play much and we sign Walsh. Russ has been lucky to be given the reigns to change the squad. Ayew and Lowe were big losses. However if Russ is looking for a sub for Naughton why not try Fulton? Grimes and Downes have played there. Overall we cant go a whole season with players looking out of position or appearing unfit and then under utilising some players who fitted a top six team performance for two previous seasons. Unfortunately we played Luton who are better managed than us and next we have Blackburn who's manager made us look like amateur hour in the away game there.

 

[J_B]

I’ve had doubt for a while. He likes to talk a good game about players being brave to play a clear and unique style, as if we’re knocking on the door of football perfection. Maybe he forgets we’ve seen masters at the possession & passing game in Martinez, Rodgers & Laudrup. They all realised that possession was a means to an end. Penetration was their first priority (especially Rodgers when he got that new bit on the side and got his teeth done).

But we occasionally see things that are pretty special, so I’m really not sure. Those two moves in the first half yesterday were sublime - the sort in the past we’d have seen Michu tucking away and they’d be played non-stop on highlight reels.

I’m wondering whether Winter isn’t as much, or more, of an issue. We were pretty lucky with Trevor Birch. We had no problems getting decent signings over the line, but that seems to have changed. Maybe that’s unfair as Birch had parachute payments, but you can only judge in results. We had a piss poor summer however you look at it. And this season is sh*t. PO finalists to looking over our shoulder at relegation.

This league is like that. We edged Barnsley in the play offs and they’re now the worst team in the division by some distance.