So, putting to one side for a moment...

[Costello]

:lol: - so where did you read that they are?? Is that why we're going back into a partial lockdown?

According to the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833 around 10% of adults in the UK haven't had one jab.

If the vaccine didn't work then you would expect to see 90% of the hospitalisations and deaths being vaccinated persons and 10% being unvaccinated, accurately reflecting society.

However, this is far from the case.

Emergency Care

Under 18s - 511/581 were unvaccinated - 88% (i.e. 88% of cases were from 10% of society)

18-29 - 257/422 were unvaccinated - 60% (i.e. 60% of cases were from 10% of society)

30-39 - 474/798 were unvaccinated - 59% (i.e. 59% of cases were from 10% of society)

40-49 - 494/1025 were unvaccinated - 50% (i.e. 50% of cases were from 10% of society)

50-59 - 526/1352 were unvaccinated - 39% (i.e. 39% of cases were from 10% of society)

60-69 - 422/1352 were unvaccinated - 31% (i.e. 31% of cases were from 10% of society)

70-79 - 295/1308 were unvaccinated - 22% (i.e. 22% of cases were from 10% of society)

80+ - 208/1318 were unvaccinated - 15% (i.e. 15% of cases were from 10% of society)


Deaths

Under 18s - 4/4 were unvaccinated - 100% (i.e. 100% of cases were from 10% of society)

18-29 - 9/13 were unvaccinated - 69% (i.e. 69% of cases were from 10% of society)

30-39 - 31/42 were unvaccinated - 73% (i.e. 73% of cases were from 10% of society)

40-49 - 45/100 were unvaccinated - 45% (i.e. 45% of cases were from 10% of society)

50-59 - 113/255 were unvaccinated - 44% (i.e. 44% of cases were from 10% of society)

60-69 - 138/492 were unvaccinated - 28% (i.e. 28% of cases were from 10% of society)

70-79 - 168/902 were unvaccinated - 18% (i.e. 18% of cases were from 10% of society)

80+ - 200/1502 were unvaccinated - 13% (i.e. 13% of cases were from 10% of society)


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039677/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_49.pdf

Pages 32 and 33


So saying that the vaccine doesn't work is clearly incorrect. The immunity it gives you may wane (clearly it does) and it may not stop everyone from getting really ill or dying but it clearly does something. Otherwise, there is no way of explaining the above figures.

You may disagree with the measures taken by the Government and how they've handled it and that's certainly a debate worth having but saying the vaccine doesn't work is absolute nonsense.

If we have to go for a booster every 6 months, then so what?

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this, but if you read the original thread that you took my sentence out of I didn't say that the vaccines weren't working. I simply posed the question 'why aren't they working now? I'm fully aware of how virus' mutate - as I explained earlier in the thread. Still, if you want to make a point from taking my sentence out of context then be my guest. Please try to read any thread you wish to comment on in future in full. It prevents any confusion.
As with any virus, and vaccine, different people will react differently. You're missing the point of what I was trying to say by a mile.

 

[ARQS]

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this, but if you read the original thread that you took my sentence out of I didn't say that the vaccines weren't working. I simply posed the question 'why aren't they working now? I'm fully aware of how virus' mutate - as I explained earlier in the thread. Still, if you want to make a point from taking my sentence out of context then be my guest. Please try to read any thread you wish to comment on in future in full. It prevents any confusion.
As with any virus, and vaccine, different people will react differently. You're missing the point of what I was trying to say by a mile.

You - If so, why aren't the vaccines and boosters working now?

Cooperman - Where did you read that vaccines and boosters are not working? Was it the same place that states the earth is flat?

You - :lol: - so where did you read that they are?? Is that why we're going back into a partial lockdown?

I then showed you statistics to show that they are working (albeit waning) as of the most recent statistics. It's been the likelihood from the start that their effectiveness would wane over time, hence the boosters.

I suspect that we are going back into partial lockdown because of the unvaccinated people who are accounting for the majority of the hospitalisations (actually in younger groups and proportionately in older ones), the fact that the Government have delayed the boosters when really they should have been rolled out, certainly to older age groups, in September/October and them being afraid that the NHS is going to get overwhelmed due to admissions and staff being sick/isolating with COVID.

I don't disagree with other points you've made in this thread - at some stage people having to make their own choices, for instance and I also don't think we should lockdown any time soon.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

It’s probably worth pointing out at this stage that what’s coming in now and after Christmas isn’t even a partial lockdown.

 

[Neath_Jack]

Isolation guidance has some big changes today as well.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

Isolation guidance has some big changes today as well.

I saw it’s being reduced from 10 to seven days across the border if you’ve got a negative LFT on days six and seven. Does that apply here as well?

 

[Cooperman]

Isolation guidance has some big changes today as well.

I saw it’s being reduced from 10 to seven days across the border if you’ve got a negative LFT on days six and seven. Does that apply here as well?

My interpretation of what’s been written is that it applies to England only.

 

[Neath_Jack]

Isolation guidance has some big changes today as well.

I saw it’s being reduced from 10 to seven days across the border if you’ve got a negative LFT on days six and seven. Does that apply here as well?

No, that's across the water only.

Household isolations when you live with someone who is positive, PCR test and isolation have been removed, and PCR testing for close contacts been removed.

Although i had a 50 second glance at them only, so...

 

[exiledclaseboy]

I saw it’s being reduced from 10 to seven days across the border if you’ve got a negative LFT on days six and seven. Does that apply here as well?

No, that's across the water only.

Household isolations when you live with someone who is positive, PCR test and isolation have been removed, and PCR testing for close contacts been removed.

Although i had a 50 second glance at them only, so...

Ta. I had a PCR Sunday the day after she tested positive and was told I need another on Monday but I don’t have to isolate in the interim.

 

[Neath_Jack]

No, that's across the water only.

Household isolations when you live with someone who is positive, PCR test and isolation have been removed, and PCR testing for close contacts been removed.

Although i had a 50 second glance at them only, so...

Ta. I had a PCR Sunday the day after she tested positive and was told I need another on Monday but I don’t have to isolate in the interim.

The day 2 and day 8 PCR has changed now, to doing lateral flows every day for 7 days.

 

[Neath_Jack]

And isolating for 10 days, regardless of vaccination status if in contact with an Omicron case, has been removed.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

Ta. I had a PCR Sunday the day after she tested positive and was told I need another on Monday but I don’t have to isolate in the interim.

The day 2 and day 8 PCR has changed now, to doing lateral flows every day for 7 days.

Doing them too. :lol:

 

[Niigata Jack]

According to the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833 around 10% of adults in the UK haven't had one jab.

If the vaccine didn't work then you would expect to see 90% of the hospitalisations and deaths being vaccinated persons and 10% being unvaccinated, accurately reflecting society.

However, this is far from the case.

Emergency Care

Under 18s - 511/581 were unvaccinated - 88% (i.e. 88% of cases were from 10% of society)

18-29 - 257/422 were unvaccinated - 60% (i.e. 60% of cases were from 10% of society)

30-39 - 474/798 were unvaccinated - 59% (i.e. 59% of cases were from 10% of society)

40-49 - 494/1025 were unvaccinated - 50% (i.e. 50% of cases were from 10% of society)

50-59 - 526/1352 were unvaccinated - 39% (i.e. 39% of cases were from 10% of society)

60-69 - 422/1352 were unvaccinated - 31% (i.e. 31% of cases were from 10% of society)

70-79 - 295/1308 were unvaccinated - 22% (i.e. 22% of cases were from 10% of society)

80+ - 208/1318 were unvaccinated - 15% (i.e. 15% of cases were from 10% of society)


Deaths

Under 18s - 4/4 were unvaccinated - 100% (i.e. 100% of cases were from 10% of society)

18-29 - 9/13 were unvaccinated - 69% (i.e. 69% of cases were from 10% of society)

30-39 - 31/42 were unvaccinated - 73% (i.e. 73% of cases were from 10% of society)

40-49 - 45/100 were unvaccinated - 45% (i.e. 45% of cases were from 10% of society)

50-59 - 113/255 were unvaccinated - 44% (i.e. 44% of cases were from 10% of society)

60-69 - 138/492 were unvaccinated - 28% (i.e. 28% of cases were from 10% of society)

70-79 - 168/902 were unvaccinated - 18% (i.e. 18% of cases were from 10% of society)

80+ - 200/1502 were unvaccinated - 13% (i.e. 13% of cases were from 10% of society)


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039677/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_49.pdf

Pages 32 and 33


So saying that the vaccine doesn't work is clearly incorrect. The immunity it gives you may wane (clearly it does) and it may not stop everyone from getting really ill or dying but it clearly does something. Otherwise, there is no way of explaining the above figures.

You may disagree with the measures taken by the Government and how they've handled it and that's certainly a debate worth having but saying the vaccine doesn't work is absolute nonsense.

If we have to go for a booster every 6 months, then so what?

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this, but if you read the original thread that you took my sentence out of I didn't say that the vaccines weren't working. I simply posed the question 'why aren't they working now? I'm fully aware of how virus' mutate - as I explained earlier in the thread. Still, if you want to make a point from taking my sentence out of context then be my guest. Please try to read any thread you wish to comment on in future in full. It prevents any confusion.
As with any virus, and vaccine, different people will react differently. You're missing the point of what I was trying to say by a mile.

I've had my 3 jabs, but I failed an LFT last night and had a PCR this morning, seemed to go downhill after the booster on Friday my arm got very sore and my elbow joint and then come down with a persistent cough yesterday and had a terrible headache last night, surprisingly its eased today.

 

[Costello]

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this, but if you read the original thread that you took my sentence out of I didn't say that the vaccines weren't working. I simply posed the question 'why aren't they working now? I'm fully aware of how virus' mutate - as I explained earlier in the thread. Still, if you want to make a point from taking my sentence out of context then be my guest. Please try to read any thread you wish to comment on in future in full. It prevents any confusion.
As with any virus, and vaccine, different people will react differently. You're missing the point of what I was trying to say by a mile.

I've had my 3 jabs, but I failed an LFT last night and had a PCR this morning, seemed to go downhill after the booster on Friday my arm got very sore and my elbow joint and then come down with a persistent cough yesterday and had a terrible headache last night, surprisingly its eased today.

Glad you're getting better Max :thumbsup:

 

[Costello]

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this, but if you read the original thread that you took my sentence out of I didn't say that the vaccines weren't working. I simply posed the question 'why aren't they working now? I'm fully aware of how virus' mutate - as I explained earlier in the thread. Still, if you want to make a point from taking my sentence out of context then be my guest. Please try to read any thread you wish to comment on in future in full. It prevents any confusion.
As with any virus, and vaccine, different people will react differently. You're missing the point of what I was trying to say by a mile.

You - If so, why aren't the vaccines and boosters working now?

Cooperman - Where did you read that vaccines and boosters are not working? Was it the same place that states the earth is flat?

You - :lol: - so where did you read that they are?? Is that why we're going back into a partial lockdown?

I then showed you statistics to show that they are working (albeit waning) as of the most recent statistics. It's been the likelihood from the start that their effectiveness would wane over time, hence the boosters.

I suspect that we are going back into partial lockdown because of the unvaccinated people who are accounting for the majority of the hospitalisations (actually in younger groups and proportionately in older ones), the fact that the Government have delayed the boosters when really they should have been rolled out, certainly to older age groups, in September/October and them being afraid that the NHS is going to get overwhelmed due to admissions and staff being sick/isolating with COVID.

I don't disagree with other points you've made in this thread - at some stage people having to make their own choices, for instance and I also don't think we should lockdown any time soon.

Fair enough. I was on the defensive because I don't like being labelled (not by you) as a Facebook scientist or whatever just for asking questions that I believe, at least, more of us should be asking.