This is what it looks like....

[Andrew - North Hill]

....when years of being a rudderless ship comes back to bite you on the arse.

Let's be perfectly honest, this sort of season has been coming.

There were signs last season under Martin that it was threatening to happen. The only reason it didn't is because, frankly, he is a better coach than Duff. I know a lot of people won't want to hear that, but tough.

You can't run the club on vapours for years, then put a complete novice (Coleman) in charge of a comprehensive reboot of both the coaching and playing staff. It is literally f*cking insane. But that's what Levien has done.

We should not be surprised in the slightest at what is happening right now. It's been a long time coming.

 

[cadleigh]

It's true that three points from seven games is a really disappointing return. Still a higher points-per-game return than the fist-pumping Pep impersonator managed between the exact same fixture last season and, funnily enough, our game against Millwall. But I don't recall there being a huge clamour for 'Russ' to be defenestrated then. Hmm.

I had some great conversations with fellow Jacks in the away end tonight and on the rather painful trip home who - like me and my family - had parted with substantial amounts of hard-earned money to attend that game.

@Andrew_North_Hill - were you there tonight? I seem to recall you posting that you only attend games if you can cadge a season ticket off someone who has actually paid for the privilege?

 

[ARQS]

You could just as easily argue that it was also coming when you replace a player like Piroe with a player like Jerry Yates

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

It's true that three points from seven games is a really disappointing return. Still a higher points-per-game return than the fist-pumping Pep impersonator managed between the exact same fixture last season and, funnily enough, our game against Millwall. But I don't recall there being a huge clamour for 'Russ' to be defenestrated then. Hmm.

I had some great conversations with fellow Jacks in the away end tonight and on the rather painful trip home who - like me and my family - had parted with substantial amounts of hard-earned money to attend that game.

@Andrew_North_Hill - were you there tonight? I seem to recall you posting that you only attend games if you can cadge a season ticket off someone who has actually paid for the privilege?

My post was about the state the club is in and how this has been coming a long time.

If you'd like to engage with it on those terms, happy to do that Cadleigh.

Otherwise, if you don't mind, rather than pollute things here, why not open a thread of your own about what constitutes a "real" supporter, seeing as that seems to be of great interest to you.

 

[Pegojack]

You could just as easily argue that it was also coming when you replace a player like Piroe with a player like Jerry Yates

I hate the yank owners and I think Duff is a dead man walking, but you can't really blame the club for selling Piroe if the truth of that situation is as reported, i.e. the club tried to get him to sign a contract extension but he wouldn't. Our choice was to take the best offer available, which we did, or hang on to him for his final year then let him walk away for nothing, with no guarantee he would have performed in his last 12 months, particularly if he was trying to avoid injury. He didn't look really bothered in the first few games while he was still here.

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

....when years of being a rudderless ship comes back to bite you on the arse.

Let's be perfectly honest, this sort of season has been coming.

There were signs last season under Martin that it was threatening to happen. The only reason it didn't is because, frankly, he is a better coach than Duff. I know a lot of people won't want to hear that, but tough.

You can't run the club on vapours for years, then put a complete novice (Coleman) in charge of a comprehensive reboot of both the coaching and playing staff. It is literally f*cking insane. But that's what Levien has done.

We should not be surprised in the slightest at what is happening right now. It's been a long time coming.

We've been one really bad decision away from a relegation battle for a little while, yep. Luckily we got Piroe right and he's been masking some of the deficiencies. If we can't replace his goals, always have a mistake or two in us at the back, and don't know any patterns of play, we're in a bit of trouble.

Big game Saturday against a relegation favourite who've started the season badly. We need a convincing win and then hopefully start to turn the corner. I'm pessimistic about our chances (as usual lol) but we can hope.

Oh, and yes agreed. The structure they've put in place is nuts. Another Trevor Birch type was needed; someone who actually knows the game and has contacts and respect amongst his peers.

 

[cadleigh]

My post was about the state the club is in and how this has been coming a long time.

If you'd like to engage with it on those terms, happy to do that Cadleigh.

Otherwise, if you don't mind, rather than pollute things here, why not open a thread of your own about what constitutes a "real" supporter, seeing as that seems to be of great interest to you.

You are missing the point.

You are trying to make the case that last night's result was the inevitable consequence of long-term mis-management by owners who you have a pathological hatred for (that's not a criticism, you are not alone in that) and there is no light at the end of the tunnel, we can expect more of the same.

I am saying that last night was a carbon copy of the same fixture last season: a 1-1 draw against one of the worst teams in the division, in which we had a majority of possession but created few chances, largely because our forwards were starved of the ball by a central midfield that showed very little creativity. The travelling fans left the ground angry and frustrated both times.

We haven't suddenly gone backwards; this is what happens when a manager gets it wrong and players fail to give 100%. In many respects I think we have actually upgraded on last season. Coleman and Watson have the potential to be a far better double act than Winter and Levien. We have some promising loan players if only the manager plays them in their favoured positions (I was a bit worried about Humphreys at the start but I thought he grew in authority as the game progressed, and Rushworth is really impressing me now). We can turn this around. Whether Duff is the manager to do it remains to be seen.

Oh, and I would never judge supporters on how many games they attend. Some of the most knowledgable supporters I know rarely - sometimes never - attend games because of age, disability, the cost of tickets or because of where they live.

 

[eteb]

You are missing the point.

You are trying to make the case that last night's result was the inevitable consequence of long-term mis-management by owners who you have a pathological hatred for (that's not a criticism, you are not alone in that) and there is no light at the end of the tunnel, we can expect more of the same.

I am saying that last night was a carbon copy of the same fixture last season: a 1-1 draw against one of the worst teams in the division, in which we had a majority of possession but created few chances, largely because our forwards were starved of the ball by a central midfield that created virtually no chances. The travelling fans left the ground angry and frustrated both times.

We haven't suddenly gone backwards; this is what happens when a manager gets it wrong and players fail to give 100%. In many respects I think we have actually upgraded on last season. Coleman and Watson have the potential to be a far better double act than Winter and Levien. We have some promising loan players if only the manager plays them in their favoured positions (I was a bit worried about Humphreys at the start but I thought he grew in authority as the game progressed, and Rushworth is really impressing me now). We can turn this around. Whether Duff is the manager to do it remains to be seen.

Oh, and I would never judge supporters on how many games they attend. Some of the most knowledgable supporters I know rarely - sometimes never - attend games because of age, disability, the cost of tickets or because of where they live.

I like rushworrh but don't think he should have been beaten for the goal.

The first 10 minutes was good and was what duff promised when he came in. Why we stopped doing it after then is a mystery.

 

[cadleigh]

I like rushworrh but don't think he should have been beaten for the goal.

The first 10 minutes was good and was what duff promised when he came in. Why we stopped doing it after then is a mystery.

Interesting about Rushworth and their goal. (I couldn't see their equaliser clearly from where I was sitting and I haven't seen the 'highlights' yet.)

Agree about the first 10 minutes. There were actually positives to take from last night, funnily enough, particularly in our defence (which continues to improve.

 

[JustJack]

A point away from home is not poor though is it?

Let's not sit at the extreme end of either reactionary scale.

 

[sainthelens]

A point away from home is not poor though is it?

Let's not sit at the extreme end of either reactionary scale.

If your saying that last night was acceptable then we are struggling.

 

[cadleigh]

If your saying that last night was acceptable then we are struggling.

To be fair, if we’d have hung on for another few minutes most of us would have taken the win and said there were more positives than negatives from last night. Duff got a few boos from the travelling support when the squad came over to applaud us but that was the only negative reaction I heard all night.

Don’t think anyone thinks it was particularly great, or even acceptable, but 90 minutes in it still looked like an improvement on the previous six games.

 

[Bluesman]

Don’t think anyone thinks it was particularly great, or even acceptable, but 90 minutes in it still looked like an improvement on the previous six games.

Yes I suppose a 9 on the pain scale is better than a 10....but really, the Swans are rubbish at the moment!

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

Oh, and I would never judge supporters on how many games they attend. Some of the most knowledgeable supporters I know rarely - sometimes never - attend games because of age, disability, the cost of tickets or because of where they live.

Excellent. It's good to see you understand that there are myriad, often complex, reasons why someone may or may not attend games regularly, and that there's no requirement for any supporter to justify or explain their position to anyone else.

 

[K23]

I like rushworrh but don't think he should have been beaten for the goal.

The first 10 minutes was good and was what duff promised when he came in. Why we stopped doing it after then is a mystery.

It's not a mystery. We were winning. It's exactly what we have done for far too long and that's take your foot off the gas as soon as you take the lead. It's a mentality thing that has been our undoing on far too many occasions and it's something that Duff needs to change. Some teams will rack up 3, 4 or 5 goals as soon as they have a team on the ropes whereas we sit back and let them off lightly.