Today - Duff's comment about defenders keeping the ball for no good reason

[Kerouac]

The Comment

Some people seem to be using this comment to pile on the guy 2 games in.

Duff's comment was absolutely correct.
Our defenders take 3-6, static, touches of the ball whilst making their mind up about what to do (My teenaged son commented; "Why are they dwelling on it so much, even my team are told to get it out early to the full-backs or a midfielder")...before usually picking;
1) the "safe" option
2) back to the keeper
or
3) launching it (which they weren't allowed to do under Martin - which is what led to so many suicidal goals given away - but now they feel able to do because Duff is challenging them to play some more direct passes. Some of them are using the extra freedom to launch it and pass on the responsibility, which Duff alludes to in the interview.

The midfield don't help, there is not movement in there, not enough players who want the ball...this is why Patino stood out, he was like a breath of fresh air in comparison.

...but the defenders don't help themselves either.
To play with the correct tempo they either need to play 1/2 touch football (quick decisions and enough movement off the ball) OR, if it's not on, bring it forward (committing people to close you) before offloading it.
None of them brought the ball forward today.

Today's performance reeked of bad habits they have fallen into under the previous management. Martin & his team encouraged them to play like they have no balls whilst blowing "so brave" smoke up their arses.
It was never brave, it was slow, static, cowardly, keep ball football. We are still playing it, it's just that now they also have the option to smack it up to nobody and blame the manager.

Duff is going to sort it/them out.



4 at the back Vs 3 at the back

As somebody who called this out very early in the Martin tenure I agree that our defenders, limited as they are, are far more comfortable in a 4, with the 2 centre-backs only being asked to defend rather than see more of the football than any other player in the team and start moves from the back.
There is a contradiction here, when those who are demanding 4 at the back now (basically admitting our defenders are not able to play football...after tolerating the 3 experiment for so long under Martin!), are also the same people demanding that we play pretty triangles out from the back.

3 can work, it has to be coached though (doesn't happen overnight) and maybe we need a defender in that takes charge of making the plays from the back...last year this was meant to be Darling. He cost £2m + we were told he was all that, he isn't...not writing him off altogether, it is just true that he is not good enough at the moment.

3 can work, but the midfield has to function correctly...some of them were hiding today. It was Grimes' worst performance I can remember (and I'm a fan of his ability). Grimes needs to play midfield, not sweeper (again, a bad habit that was put in his game under Martin).
Fulton I love, but he is not the most mobile.
We need to see a lot more of Patino and Allen in there from here on in.



The effort

Wasn't there. It was a disgraceful performance from some of the players.
Piroe played like he had his head stuck up his arse.
Grimes & Fulton played at walking pace.
Key and Ashby hid from receiving the ball.
Darling looked like he didn't want to be here.
All 3 centre-backs did not put their bodies on the line defending the box.
Wood mentally switched off and allowed his man to run away from him at that corner early in the 2nd half, the goal came from it.
They all let themselves down.
3 shots on target (2 set pieces and a penalty) and 3 goals. That is a fucking disgrace.

Duff made a comment in the interview which echoed what I said to my son after the 3rd had gone in and we started to finally play, namely;
'Why the fuck are they putting the effort in and scrapping for everything now when they say out the first hour?'
...the subs certainly helped, but some who were out there for the whole game need to look at themselves because there was zero scrap in our team at the outset.
It was like we started out 3-0 up.





The Manager
Duff is going to sort this out, some egos are going to be hurt along the way.
Maybe we should act like grown ups and allow him to coach them for a period is it?
I gave Martin a dozen games before I made any comments whatsoever...and they were constructive comments, I was still on board.
It was January before I decided he wasn't for me.
I still supported him and his team until the end of season 1.
It was him repeating all the same mistakes again during the Autumn of season 2 that I lost all patience.

Duff has had 2, TWO, games.

 

[monmouth]

I’ve watched the whole interview now (or the whole clip) and feel totally differently. He is pretty much spot on. Far more positive he can maybe see what is needed. Still a bit uneasy he cant see the need for more bodies in the midfield. I do think Grimes and Fulton are an issue for him. They are stuck in reverse gear.

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

The Comment

Some people seem to be using this comment to pile on the guy 2 games in.

Duff's comment was absolutely correct.
Our defenders take 3-6, static, touches of the ball whilst making their mind up about what to do (My teenaged son commented; "Why are they dwelling on it so much, even my team are told to get it out early to the full-backs or a midfielder")...before usually picking;
1) the "safe" option
2) back to the keeper
or
3) launching it (which they weren't allowed to do under Martin - which is what led to so many suicidal goals given away - but now they feel able to do because Duff is challenging them to play some more direct passes. Some of them are using the extra freedom to launch it and pass on the responsibility, which Duff alludes to in the interview.

The midfield don't help, there is not movement in there, not enough players who want the ball...this is why Patino stood out, he was like a breath of fresh air in comparison.

...but the defenders don't help themselves either.
To play with the correct tempo they either need to play 1/2 touch football (quick decisions and enough movement off the ball) OR, if it's not on, bring it forward (committing people to close you) before offloading it.
None of them brought the ball forward today.

Today's performance reeked of bad habits they have fallen into under the previous management. Martin & his team encouraged them to play like they have no balls whilst blowing "so brave" smoke up their arses.
It was never brave, it was slow, static, cowardly, keep ball football. We are still playing it, it's just that now they also have the option to smack it up to nobody and blame the manager.

Duff is going to sort it/them out.



4 at the back Vs 3 at the back

As somebody who called this out very early in the Martin tenure I agree that our defenders, limited as they are, are far more comfortable in a 4, with the 2 centre-backs only being asked to defend rather than see more of the football than any other player in the team and start moves from the back.
There is a contradiction here, when those who are demanding 4 at the back now (basically admitting our defenders are not able to play football...after tolerating the 3 experiment for so long under Martin!), are also the same people demanding that we play pretty triangles out from the back.

3 can work, it has to be coached though (doesn't happen overnight) and maybe we need a defender in that takes charge of making the plays from the back...last year this was meant to be Darling. He cost £2m + we were told he was all that, he isn't...not writing him off altogether, it is just true that he is not good enough at the moment.

3 can work, but the midfield has to function correctly...some of them were hiding today. It was Grimes' worst performance I can remember (and I'm a fan of his ability). Grimes needs to play midfield, not sweeper (again, a bad habit that was put in his game under Martin).
Fulton I love, but he is not the most mobile.
We need to see a lot more of Patino and Allen in there from here on in.



The effort

Wasn't there. It was a disgraceful performance from some of the players.
Piroe played like he had his head stuck up his arse.
Grimes & Fulton played at walking pace.
Key and Ashby hid from receiving the ball.
Darling looked like he didn't want to be here.
All 3 centre-backs did not put their bodies on the line defending the box.
Wood mentally switched off and allowed his man to run away from him at that corner early in the 2nd half, the goal came from it.
They all let themselves down.
3 shots on target (2 set pieces and a penalty) and 3 goals. That is a f*****g disgrace.

Duff made a comment in the interview which echoed what I said to my son after the 3rd had gone in and we started to finally play, namely;
'Why the f**k are they putting the effort in and scrapping for everything now when they say out the first hour?'
...the subs certainly helped, but some who were out there for the whole game need to look at themselves because there was zero scrap in our team at the outset.
It was like we started out 3-0 up.





The Manager
Duff is going to sort this out, some egos are going to be hurt along the way.
Maybe we should act like grown ups and allow him to coach them for a period is it?
I gave Martin a dozen games before I made any comments whatsoever...and they were constructive comments, I was still on board.
It was January before I decided he wasn't for me.
I still supported him and his team until the end of season 1.
It was him repeating all the same mistakes again during the Autumn of season 2 that I lost all patience.

Duff has had 2, TWO, games.

Yeah great post, I watched the interview and I couldn't see a lot wrong with what he said apart from the shape comment, I do think he should of started with patino and Gino but patino literally got here about two days ago. Has to be given time.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

Except he didn't say it was defenders doing it, he said the whole team were doing it.

Anyway, probably splitting hairs there.

The point is, it's not just about his comments today, he's been making comments like that since his very first press conference.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that what he wants to do is very different to Martin. And that's fine. He's the boss now. But why doesn't he just get on with it and do it, instead of making sly digs at the bloke before him? I just think it's wholly unnecessary, and it certainly won't be endearing him to anyone else, other than his own staff and Coleman perhaps.

Like you, I totally agree that 2 games is way too early to judge what's going on on the pitch. He deserves until the end of October at least, on that front.

But I really don't like the cut of his jib in press conferences so far. He comes across like he's got a massive chip on his shoulder, to me anyway. I'd like to see him quit the unnecessary jibes and just crack on with the job in hand.

 

[Dr. Winston]

The problem is that you can either have Grimes or Fulton. Not both. We've been here before several times under several managers. You have to divvy up responsibility in midfield. Too many similar types will cause you problems. Even going as far back as Rodgers. With Britton, Allen and Gower in the same midfield we were pedestrian. Adding Dobbie in as an attacking catalyst changed us from a decent team into a good one.

I think it's fairly obvious that Duff saw Ntcham as a key player this season and his unavailability in both matches so far has knocked the game plan. I would expect Patino to step in and provide the driving force that neither Grimes nor Fulton can muster.

 

[jasper_T]

I don't think Key and Ashby hid from the ball, it's obviously an instruction that they push as high up the pitch as possible waiting for long percentage balls to float into the stands above their heads.

 

[Cooperman]

Except he didn't say it was defenders doing it, he said the whole team were doing it.

Anyway, probably splitting hairs there.

The point is, it's not just about his comments today, he's been making comments like that since his very first press conference.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that what he wants to do is very different to Martin. And that's fine. He's the boss now. But why doesn't he just get on with it and do it, instead of making sly digs at the bloke before him? I just think it's wholly unnecessary, and it certainly won't be endearing him to anyone else, other than his own staff and Coleman perhaps.

Like you, I totally agree that 2 games is way too early to judge what's going on on the pitch. He deserves until the end of October at least, on that front.

But I really don't like the cut of his jib in press conferences so far. He comes across like he's got a massive chip on his shoulder, to me anyway. I'd like to see him quit the unnecessary jibes and just crack on with the job in hand.

Good post, Andy. I am particularly aligned with your last paragraph.

 

[3swan]

I listened to the full interview and found little to disagree with.

It's a strange old world, where we've had comments about Duff being a straight talker and now more about him having sly digs at the old tactics.

Who knows yet which is right, time will tell, but the players need to take a hard look at their performance, or lack of, yesterday.

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

Except he didn't say it was defenders doing it, he said the whole team were doing it.

Anyway, probably splitting hairs there.

The point is, it's not just about his comments today, he's been making comments like that since his very first press conference.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that what he wants to do is very different to Martin. And that's fine. He's the boss now. But why doesn't he just get on with it and do it, instead of making sly digs at the bloke before him? I just think it's wholly unnecessary, and it certainly won't be endearing him to anyone else, other than his own staff and Coleman perhaps.

Like you, I totally agree that 2 games is way too early to judge what's going on on the pitch. He deserves until the end of October at least, on that front.

But I really don't like the cut of his jib in press conferences so far. He comes across like he's got a massive chip on his shoulder, to me anyway. I'd like to see him quit the unnecessary jibes and just crack on with the job in hand.

One man's sly digs is another man's pointing out factual problems from the past, i think you are reading way to much into the new managers words myself, all about opinions though, personally I find him a breath of fresh air after the last manager.

 

[A4Jack]

One man's sly digs is another man's pointing out factual problems from the past, i think you are reading way to much into the new managers words myself, all about opinions though, personally I find him a breath of fresh air after the last manager.

It's becoming abundantly apparent that some people can't wait to have a go at Duff just because he isn't the serial winner Russell Martin with his slicked back hair.

The criticisms that are being levelled at Duff in his comments were far less tactfully raised by Martin after Cooper's tenure. Laughably as Cooper then took his next club to the Premier League.

In fact Martin was livid that the players had resorted to old tactics in his third(?) game at Bristol City as that was not the right way to play...

 

[monmouth]

It's becoming abundantly apparent that some people can't wait to have a go at Duff just because he isn't the serial winner Russell Martin with his slicked back hair.

The criticisms that are being levelled at Duff in his comments were far less tactfully raised by Martin after Cooper's tenure. Laughably as Cooper then took his next club to the Premier League.

In fact Martin was livid that the players had resorted to old tactics in his third(?) game at Bristol City as that was not the right way to play...

Oh yes, remember that. After he finally got a win.

I hope, for everyone’s sake we get 3 points soon; then maybe we can all settle down

 

[Swansea93]

Duff is no mug, he’s been a winner both as player and manager, the bloke knows what he’s doing and has a better pedigree as manager and player than Martin had, Martin was given 2 years and Duff has had 2 games and people are going mad, chill out, it took Barnsley until around October to get fully going under him and they ended up in the playoff final.

Plus certain interest in our players might be causing issues whilst their heads are being turned who knows (Grimes, Piroe, Wood, Cabango)

 

[3swan]

Duff is no mug, he’s been a winner both as player and manager, the bloke knows what he’s doing and has a better pedigree as manager and player than Martin had, Martin was given 2 years and Duff has had 2 games and people are going mad, chill out, it took Barnsley until around October to get fully going under him and they ended up in the playoff final.

Plus certain interest in our players might be causing issues whilst their heads are being turned who knows (Grimes, Piroe, Wood, Cabango)

Agree.

There is much to improve but it is a very disjointed team at the moment. New players, injuries etc.

Now it could be down to style and tactics, but yesterday many players have to look at themselves. WBA were powerful but nothing special, all 4 poor defensive goals and a penalty.

Neither team created much in open play, it's just WBA seemed to want it more.

Our 2 goals, I won't call it a fightback, hides some of the poor decision making throughout the game.

 

[Arthurmorgan]

Yeah far too early to make a judgement as a whole, and in a world of instant scrutiny via the varying media’s there’s no hiding, but I too feel he does need to just let go of the past ventures and just stamp his own way through, we were abject for large parts of the game, and it told, and then seemed turbo injected with a sniff of getting back in,I didn’t see much in WBA, no discredit to them, to suggest they’re streets ahead of us, no where near pressing a panic station button yet, but I do feel they all need a bit of an arse kick.

 

[Neath_Jack]

I didn't think it would take long for the manager to be written off / getting pelters, but surprised it's this quick to be honest.

It's gone from 'Hate Martin and his soundbytes in interviews' to 'Duff is too straight and lippy'.

If i didn't know better, I would say you couldn't make it up :lol:

It hasn't been a great start, but give the bloke a chance first.