Local elections

[Cooperman]

True, its possible that some of them aren't thick, it's not one homogenous mass. I'm sure there are one or two bright people who are genuinely invested in Reform and would consider themselves fully informed and have gone in eyes wide open. I still reckon the vast majority of them are thick though.

I suppose it all boils down to the fact that I don't have a lot of sympathy (a) for people who continually vote against their own interests and/or (b) people who don't do their homework before casting their vote. It's not difficult to read up on politicians and parties, in this day and age it's easier than ever, there is no excuse for being misinformed imo.

As for it not being how you win arguments, then that depends whether you're in it to have an argument in the first place. Me personally, I just prefer to mind my own business and make sure I can look at myself in the mirror when I vote and it ends there for me. I'm not really interested in persuading anyone to change or debate their choices, got far better things to do with my time and in most cases it's going to be utterly futile anyway.

Gullible is more appropriate than thick.

 

[rockinj]

Gullible is more appropriate than thick.

A lot are pretty thick. I’d probably suggest ignorant to the truth and yes gullible is a good word too.

This isn’t a UK issue now though as we see elsewhere. It’ll fade eventually of course but we have to live through a depressing time now.

That’s not to say middle ground politicians haven’t made mistakes and yes immigration concerns were not treated seriously years back. I was one of the ones mentioning it, that period was toxic. Decent people were called racist. That was so dumb and opened the window to the populists.

 

[jack123]

Given I don’t live in an area which stands any chance whatsoever of having Reform represent me my toys are firmly in place thanks.

Nice deflection though. Did you think we wouldn’t notice?

The thing is, it’s not a deflection is it? I’m just stating facts, there is no need to be angry

Just to clarify my stance on this Lisa, I am not promoting Reform, and I will never vote for them.

I was just illustrating the point, that the Labour party, have only been in power a short while, and they are already loathed by the majority.

 

[jack123]

Have you ever considered that the media narrative might play a massive role in people’s views?

Eg if George Osborne had done what Labour did on winter fuel I bet they would have said makes sense we can’t afford it “people need to do their bit”

That’s one example

I know the media have a massive impact. They went to town on the Tories over Party Gate. Absolutely relentless. They just didn’t give up,

Never seen nothing like it.

 

[MajorR]

I know the media have a massive impact. They went to town on the Tories over Party Gate. Absolutely relentless. They just didn’t give up,

Never seen nothing like it.

Controlling the narrative and media is why Musk stumped up $44bn for Twitter - it meant he and the other behind the scenes Republican billionaires could push their agenda with Trump being the figure head.

We’re seeing it here now - and it’s been like this for years, The Telegraph, Times, Sun, GB News, Daily Mail are all the voice pieces of the rich establishment. Whatever Starmer does they’ll snipe and drip drip, he needs to be more effective with his communication and, tbh I don5 think he’s got the charisma to carry it - not many have.

Starmer has made some progress, NHS waiting lists are down and continuing to decrease, Deportations are increasing but he needs to do more in other areas.

The big issue for lots of people is immigration and that’s what needs to be addressed. The Conservatives failed badly - nothing else to be said. Labour is making progress with the deportations, but the small boats are still arriving. If he doesn’t sort that out he’s toast. Making it harder for people to work illegally, sorting out the HRA and amending it so that villains can’t use the chicken nuggets excuse to avoid deportation would be another tick for many people.

Labour in Wales……. Eluned Morgan, Drakers, Gething all need to do one and get lost.

We’ll see what Reform have to offer going forward because if they want to be a credible force they have to have a strong manifesto - let’s see what that looks like.

 

[Pentyrchjack]

I'm always astonished there isn't a sensible centrist party in GB which would appeal to the masses disillusioned with Labour and Conservative.

Yes, Reform appeals to a certain mindset but it's also become the default vote for the politically disenfranchised because there are no credible alternatives with any hope of getting into power.

 

[DJack]

I'm always astonished there isn't a sensible centrist party in GB which would appeal to the masses disillusioned with Labour and Conservative.

Yes, Reform appeals to a certain mindset but it's also become the default vote for the politically disenfranchised because there are no credible alternatives with any hope of getting into power.

Christ mate, you've always come across as cultured and educated but as I've said elsewhere our rapacious press barons want nothing less than our adherence to the physically impossible, exponentially increasing "free market".

Nothing must get in the way of that impossible goal and they well lie about everything and sell their family to get the public believing that rubbish.

 

[jack123]

When you describe a certain type of person, it's always useful when one of them shows up and illustrates your point.

I could be wrong of course and jack123 will give me a detailed breakdown of Reform's policies and why he would vote for them, in which case I will apologise for stereotyping him.

I’m not a reform supporter though. I’m just throughly joyous. I remember back in the day when the Tory’s were in power, and the writing was on the wall that Labour would get in, and my comment was ‘ it will be out of the frying pan, and into the fire if they get in’ I honestly didn’t expect my comment to reach fruition so quickly.

 

[Itchysphincter]

I don’t see the point of dismissing all Reform voters as “thick” either. It’s not how you win arguments. Even though it may be true. Politics in the UK is in huge danger of going the same way as Trump’s USA. Be more Carney and less Harris. Council workers in Durham have already been told to look for other jobs by Dear Leader Farage. Well done, voters of Durham. This is on you. But imagine it nationwide. A year till the Senedd elections, four years until the next general election. There’s time but the sensible parties need to step up and make the argument. Shouting “RACIST” isn’t going to cut it because most of them are, they don’t care and are proud of it and they’re now the mainstream. So the rest of us need to be better.

I didn’t doubt Wales will go full on Reform and, double down….. and way you say ‘going the way of Trump’s USA’, I’d say we started it with Brexit and UKIP really, and Trump picked up the ball and ran with it. He doesn’t even know where he goalposts are but our lot are running like fuck to catch up anyway. It’s going to be a long and painful battle where generations not yet born are going to suffer. Thanks Brexit.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

I didn’t doubt Wales will go full on Reform and, double down….. and way you say ‘going the way of Trump’s USA’, I’d say we started it with Brexit and UKIP really, and Trump picked up the ball and ran with it. He doesn’t even know where he goalposts are but our lot are running like fuck to catch up anyway. It’s going to be a long and painful battle where generations not yet born are going to suffer. Thanks Brexit.

Yes you’re right. We took the genie out of the bottle ourselves.

 

[waynekerr55]

I know the media have a massive impact. They went to town on the Tories over Party Gate. Absolutely relentless. They just didn’t give up,

Never seen nothing like it.

Yeah, totally unjustified...

 

[ThurrockJack]

The thing is, it’s not a deflection is it? I’m just stating facts, there is no need to be angry

Just to clarify my stance on this Lisa, I am not promoting Reform, and I will never vote for them.

I was just illustrating the point, that the Labour party, have only been in power a short while, and they are already loathed by the majority.

Any loathing has more to do with propaganda than anything they have actually done. I can understand disagreeing with certain policies, but nothing they have actually done has been extreme enough to warrant the vim they get from Reform types. They are driven entirely by what they want to believe about their opponents, reality does not matter to them. Which is why it is a matter of national security that this filth never get any real power.

 

[ThurrockJack]

I'm always astonished there isn't a sensible centrist party in GB which would appeal to the masses disillusioned with Labour and Conservative.

Yes, Reform appeals to a certain mindset but it's also become the default vote for the politically disenfranchised because there are no credible alternatives with any hope of getting into power.

The current iteration of the Labour party are entirely driven by centrist pragmatism, people who believe otherwise are not operating in reality.

 

[Itchysphincter]

Well done for deciphering what I wrote there, bloody iPhone, honest.

 

[Andrew - North Hill]

The current iteration of the Labour party are entirely driven by centrist pragmatism, people who believe otherwise are not operating in reality.

They are a centre-Right party. And it's important to recognise that.

Sadly, one of the consequences of having an extremely Right-wing loony Tory government for the previous 14 years is that we've all been bruised and battered, to the point we should probably be grateful that at least we don't have a bunch of lunatics in charge anymore. It still doesn't mean we've got the government we need though, unfortunately.

It's been a bit like swapping a really nasty STD for one at the milder end of the scale.