“I have seen more entertaining things come out of GBNews” – a view on the Swans?

[Nocountryforoldjack]

I couldn't give you the stats on it, only that Martin wasn't hiding from the fact it hadn't always worked. It made perfect sense when he was showing it, especially with the clips to back it up, but it making sense in a meeting room has to translate on the pitch.

It didn't sound like he was going away from it that night, but it was used much less Saturday, whether that's a one game thing based on what Rotherham were doing or a change in approach, it's hard to say until we see more games.

@Lisa ball movement and urgency is absolutely key to it, if we don't have it, it simply won't work. The Cardiff and Millwall away games were two games where I really thought we nailed that aspect. We had a zip about us that was lacking up until that point.

I'm more half full on Martin's approach coming good - while accepting all the points made here are very valid.

Darling is obviously a talented ball player, Wood surprised me Sat in he looked very confident with it and able to break lines....Joe Allen should be extremely comfortable with it. But not having genuine wing backs who offer a threat in behind is an issue. It's not a co-incidence to me we had that decent run when Wolf got up to speed and he was one side, with Christie on the other. It means teams have to respect their pace and ability to stretch them, which really helps us all over the pitch.

Yep

 

[monmouth]

The goal kick routine was explained in great detail in the fans forum. It's a basic spare man concept. If you only have one player back to receive from the keeper they will usually only send one to press, then if you use the keeper in a 2 on 1 you can easily take that man out of the game straight away. In theory, it can lead you to having a spare man further up the pitch...and if you find that spare man, they have space to operate in. And someone will have to leave their man to close them down, leaving someone else in space and so on.

Obviously I cannot explain it as well as the manager did and he showed a number of clips where it worked perfectly and to be fair, a number of clips where it didn't.

It really relies on the ball moving quickly though and the positioning/thought process of the entire team. Our issues with it having watched those clips for me are more with the rest of the team, and less on Fisher. It's easy enough for him to beat the one man press but he's going to be left stranded and with bad options quickly if the rest of the team doesn't do what they should be doing.

We did it far less on Saturday, I'm not sure if that's by design or because the way Rotherham defended it took the option away.

It sounds to be fair, like exactly the sort of thing Martin could explain in great detail…

It has the same effect as taking Obafemi out of the game by him aimlessly dangling a leg when their keeper has a goal kick leaving him in an offside position whenever we win the ball back quickly.

The thing is with this stuff, and I realise it’s the same as the whole ‘pass the ball about at the back so they will have to push further up onto our back three leaving space behind to be exploited’, is it only works when you then show at least some urgency to move into that space. Otherwise all it does is opens the possibility for a calamity for no gain as they will have regrouped by the time we get anywhere near the space that was created.

Do you know the main thing though I’ve realised when typing this out. These ‘clever’ tactics sound a lot more valid when you have a team that doesn’t finish bloody 15th in a phenomenally weak championship.
It’s like that interview with him on the site after Saturday’s game. It’s in depth management speak about tactics and possession and process and movement and drive and ambition when we have just managed a draw at Rotherham. It’s one thing when it’s a draw away at Chelsea, or a win at the Emirates, but it’s a draw at Rotherham. And yet to listen to it, it’s majestic in its plan and execution, only scuppered by a dry pitch, them taking slow throw ins (no one btw takes longer than us at throw-ins).

I really want him to do well as it means we do well, but I’m going to have to avoid listening to him as it drives me mad. It’s like a conversation with someone that has swallowed all those management books you see at an airport yet has no significant success in business to speak of.

I can't listen to him any longer. Bullshit to excuse and postpone any judgement is his stock in trade, however it is dressed up and presented. We need to see things working on the pitch, now. If you haven't got a right wing back, don't play tactics that utterly demand a (very good) right wing back.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

I couldn't give you the stats on it, only that Martin wasn't hiding from the fact it hadn't always worked. It made perfect sense when he was showing it, especially with the clips to back it up, but it making sense in a meeting room has to translate on the pitch.

It didn't sound like he was going away from it that night, but it was used much less Saturday, whether that's a one game thing based on what Rotherham were doing or a change in approach, it's hard to say until we see more games.

@Lisa ball movement and urgency is absolutely key to it, if we don't have it, it simply won't work. The Cardiff and Millwall away games were two games where I really thought we nailed that aspect. We had a zip about us that was lacking up until that point.

I'm more half full on Martin's approach coming good - while accepting all the points made here are very valid.

Darling is obviously a talented ball player, Wood surprised me Sat in he looked very confident with it and able to break lines....Joe Allen should be extremely comfortable with it. But not having genuine wing backs who offer a threat in behind is an issue. It's not a co-incidence to me we had that decent run when Wolf got up to speed and he was one side, with Christie on the other. It means teams have to respect their pace and ability to stretch them, which really helps us all over the pitch.

I agree with you re our players. I like both centre backs and Cabango, like our left wing back (I know others don’t), like our forwards. I have an issue with midfield balance that will be improved immeasurably by Joey in the team, Grimes being pushed forward and Fulton at Reading. I actually like Latibeaudiere but not in that position but as a squad player.
I don’t like Patterson. I’d replace with one of Congreve, Cooper or Ntcham. Keeper is ok - I wouldn’t have spent the money to be honest and I’d have gone with Benda, but he’s fine.

We need a right wing back and I think we have a very good first team. Certainly good enough to beat Rotherham if we stop buggering about.
Do you know who I’d like to see manage this team (within reason, as Rodgers and Laudrup obviously wouldn’t) - Guidolin. I think he’d get us up this year. Seriously.

I worry when I hear stuff about ‘there’s no pressure to go up’. Well there should be.

 

[Copamundial]

I know it’s all about opinions but bloody hell half of you are obviously in the wrong jobs.

For what it’s worth I was there Saturday and there was definitely an improvement on last seasons performances,Rotherham were pulled from pillar to post and if Obefami didn’t have an absolute mare I’m sure we would have come away with three points.

May not have been Chelsea or at the Emirates but we aren’t the team that went to those grounds and got results either.

Little old Rotherham should have just rolled over and allowed the Welsh Galacticos to win I suppose.

 

[3swan]

I know it’s all about opinions but bloody hell half of you are obviously in the wrong jobs.

For what it’s worth I was there Saturday and there was definitely an improvement on last seasons performances,Rotherham were pulled from pillar to post and if Obefami didn’t have an absolute mare I’m sure we would have come away with three points.

May not have been Chelsea or at the Emirates but we aren’t the team that went to those grounds and got results either.

Little old Rotherham should have just rolled over and allowed the Welsh Galacticos to win I suppose.

I came away from the game on Saturday and can say I enjoyed it, something I can't say for many games last season. There were signs of improvement, but do firmly believe that we need to play and pass at a higher tempo, if we are going to be competitive this season. Ben and Joe when fit will help, but we do need a right wing back, as much as Joel put in a good shift.

We're already 3 places up from where we finished last season, so just a bit more improvement needed, and of course not losing key players

 

[JackSomething]

I know it’s all about opinions but bloody hell half of you are obviously in the wrong jobs.

For what it’s worth I was there Saturday and there was definitely an improvement on last seasons performances,Rotherham were pulled from pillar to post and if Obefami didn’t have an absolute mare I’m sure we would have come away with three points.

May not have been Chelsea or at the Emirates but we aren’t the team that went to those grounds and got results either.

Little old Rotherham should have just rolled over and allowed the Welsh Galacticos to win I suppose.

We heard plenty of similar talk under Roberto and Brendan from opposition fans about us being boring to watch and plenty of our fans moaned about us having no 'Plan B' also.

Martin has to start delivering the results to be in any way compared to those managers, but it is amusing to hear the same old arguments.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

I know it’s all about opinions but bloody hell half of you are obviously in the wrong jobs.

For what it’s worth I was there Saturday and there was definitely an improvement on last seasons performances,Rotherham were pulled from pillar to post and if Obefami didn’t have an absolute mare I’m sure we would have come away with three points.

May not have been Chelsea or at the Emirates but we aren’t the team that went to those grounds and got results either.

Little old Rotherham should have just rolled over and allowed the Welsh Galacticos to win I suppose.

We heard plenty of similar talk under Roberto and Brendan from opposition fans about us being boring to watch and plenty of our fans moaned about us having no 'Plan B' also.

Martin has to start delivering the results to be in any way compared to those managers, but it is amusing to hear the same old arguments.

You certainly didn’t hear any of our fans having the same old arguments after either Roberto or Brendan had been in post for over a year, but hey ho.

I wasn’t by the way saying we were galaticos, I was saying I wish our manager would stop talking about us as though we were. Quite the difference.

 

[Copamundial]

We heard plenty of similar talk under Roberto and Brendan from opposition fans about us being boring to watch and plenty of our fans moaned about us having no 'Plan B' also.

Martin has to start delivering the results to be in any way compared to those managers, but it is amusing to hear the same old arguments.

You certainly didn’t hear any of our fans having the same old arguments after either Roberto or Brendan had been in post for over a year, but hey ho.

I wasn’t by the way saying we were galaticos, I was saying I wish our manager would stop talking about us as though we were. Quite the difference.

As I said, half of the people on here are obviously in the wrong jobs, what would you like Martin to say?

We’re one game into a very long season, we were away at a newly promoted team, we had practically a new defence out on the pitch and as much as it hurts some people we did ok, in fact we were a class apart.

Listening to their supporters leaving the ground they were delighted to get a point.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

You certainly didn’t hear any of our fans having the same old arguments after either Roberto or Brendan had been in post for over a year, but hey ho.

I wasn’t by the way saying we were galaticos, I was saying I wish our manager would stop talking about us as though we were. Quite the difference.

As I said, half of the people on here are obviously in the wrong jobs, what would you like Martin to say?

We’re one game into a very long season, we were away at a newly promoted team, we had practically a new defence out on the pitch and as much as it hurts some people we did ok, in fact we were a class apart.

Listening to their supporters leaving the ground they were delighted to get a point.

We were not a class apart. I’d like him to be honest and not patronise other teams as though he’s invented football.
Last season we had a midfielder we’ve just sold for £12m or so, and two strikers that our entire fan base thinks are worth £25m between them if not more. We also had a number of loans from top teams and some legacy premier league players. We finished 15th.

The time for talking has ended - we need to start performing. So let’s hope we do. With minimum nonsense about process preferably.

I hope he wins every award going this season as it means we have started winning matches.

 

[Uxy]

The goal kick routine was explained in great detail in the fans forum. It's a basic spare man concept. If you only have one player back to receive from the keeper they will usually only send one to press, then if you use the keeper in a 2 on 1 you can easily take that man out of the game straight away. In theory, it can lead you to having a spare man further up the pitch...and if you find that spare man, they have space to operate in. And someone will have to leave their man to close them down, leaving someone else in space and so on.

Obviously I cannot explain it as well as the manager did and he showed a number of clips where it worked perfectly and to be fair, a number of clips where it didn't.

It really relies on the ball moving quickly though and the positioning/thought process of the entire team. Our issues with it having watched those clips for me are more with the rest of the team, and less on Fisher. It's easy enough for him to beat the one man press but he's going to be left stranded and with bad options quickly if the rest of the team doesn't do what they should be doing.

We did it far less on Saturday, I'm not sure if that's by design or because the way Rotherham defended it took the option away.

It sounds to be fair, like exactly the sort of thing Martin could explain in great detail…

It has the same effect as taking Obafemi out of the game by him aimlessly dangling a leg when their keeper has a goal kick leaving him in an offside position whenever we win the ball back quickly.

The thing is with this stuff, and I realise it’s the same as the whole ‘pass the ball about at the back so they will have to push further up onto our back three leaving space behind to be exploited’, is it only works when you then show at least some urgency to move into that space. Otherwise all it does is opens the possibility for a calamity for no gain as they will have regrouped by the time we get anywhere near the space that was created.

Do you know the main thing though I’ve realised when typing this out. These ‘clever’ tactics sound a lot more valid when you have a team that doesn’t finish bloody 15th in a phenomenally weak championship.
It’s like that interview with him on the site after Saturday’s game. It’s in depth management speak about tactics and possession and process and movement and drive and ambition when we have just managed a draw at Rotherham. It’s one thing when it’s a draw away at Chelsea, or a win at the Emirates, but it’s a draw at Rotherham. And yet to listen to it, it’s majestic in its plan and execution, only scuppered by a dry pitch, them taking slow throw ins (no one btw takes longer than us at throw-ins).

I really want him to do well as it means we do well, but I’m going to have to avoid listening to him as it drives me mad. It’s like a conversation with someone that has swallowed all those management books you see at an airport yet has no significant success in business to speak of.

He'd make a cracking management consultant in fairness. You can take that any way you want :lol:

 

[JackSomething]

We heard plenty of similar talk under Roberto and Brendan from opposition fans about us being boring to watch and plenty of our fans moaned about us having no 'Plan B' also.

Martin has to start delivering the results to be in any way compared to those managers, but it is amusing to hear the same old arguments.

You certainly didn’t hear any of our fans having the same old arguments after either Roberto or Brendan had been in post for over a year, but hey ho.

I wasn’t by the way saying we were galaticos, I was saying I wish our manager would stop talking about us as though we were. Quite the difference.

I'm not saying it was a majority, but there were loads of our fans who would break out the old 'we have no plan B' argument every game we failed to win under Roberto, despite the overall success we had. I remember regular arguments on Planet Swans about it. 'Sterile possession' was a popular one from those days, although I'd say that would actually have been a valid argument for a lot of last season.

We also regularly heard that we were boring to watch from opposing fans, eerily similar to the link from the OP. Martin hasn't delivered the results those managers did of course and so makes his argument more valid, but it's nothing we haven't heard many times before.

I agree with you on Martin's interviews by the way, I tend not to listen to him for that reason. I don't know if he really believes what he's saying or this is his way of motivating the team, but he does come up with some nonsense.

 

[Copamundial]

As I said, half of the people on here are obviously in the wrong jobs, what would you like Martin to say?

We’re one game into a very long season, we were away at a newly promoted team, we had practically a new defence out on the pitch and as much as it hurts some people we did ok, in fact we were a class apart.

Listening to their supporters leaving the ground they were delighted to get a point.

We were not a class apart. I’d like him to be honest and not patronise other teams as though he’s invented football.
Last season we had a midfielder we’ve just sold for £12m or so, and two strikers that our entire fan base thinks are worth £25m between them if not more. We also had a number of loans from top teams and some legacy premier league players. We finished 15th.

The time for talking has ended - we need to start performing. So let’s hope we do. With minimum nonsense about process preferably.

I hope he wins every award going this season as it means we have started winning matches.

I’m sorry but we were a class apart and we did perform, not sure if you was actually at the game,watching it on a crappy feed doesn’t give a true perspective on how we performed.

Some of our play was brilliant, what we didn’t bank on was our striker having a total mare.

Again, some people are in the wrong jobs,making eloquent posts on a message board is one thing, believing that you can see things that a seasoned pro can’t is another.

Great to have opinions but you know the famous saying about them.

 

[Risc]

We were not a class apart. I’d like him to be honest and not patronise other teams as though he’s invented football.
Last season we had a midfielder we’ve just sold for £12m or so, and two strikers that our entire fan base thinks are worth £25m between them if not more. We also had a number of loans from top teams and some legacy premier league players. We finished 15th.

The time for talking has ended - we need to start performing. So let’s hope we do. With minimum nonsense about process preferably.

I hope he wins every award going this season as it means we have started winning matches.

I’m sorry but we were a class apart and we did perform, not sure if you was actually at the game,watching it on a crappy feed doesn’t give a true perspective on how we performed.

Some of our play was brilliant, what we didn’t bank on was our striker having a total mare.

Again, some people are in the wrong jobs,making eloquent posts on a message board is one thing, believing that you can see things that a seasoned pro can’t is another.

Great to have opinions but you know the famous saying about them.

So just to clarify, Martin being a pro football manager, saying we were good and you agreeing makes Lisa's opinion null and void? I happen to agree with her, we were far from a class above they could have easily scored a couple more.

 

[Copamundial]

I’m sorry but we were a class apart and we did perform, not sure if you was actually at the game,watching it on a crappy feed doesn’t give a true perspective on how we performed.

Some of our play was brilliant, what we didn’t bank on was our striker having a total mare.

Again, some people are in the wrong jobs,making eloquent posts on a message board is one thing, believing that you can see things that a seasoned pro can’t is another.

Great to have opinions but you know the famous saying about them.

So just to clarify, Martin being a pro football manager, saying we were good and you agreeing makes Lisa's opinion null and void? I happen to agree with her, we were far from a class above they could have easily scored a couple more.

Not one to rely on stats but a 74% - 26% ratio tells me we were a class apart.
We also had several chances to win it you seemed to have overlooked that, plus we played far more football in the final third than we did last season.

Did you expect us to go to little old Rotherham and steamroller them,I’ve followed the club for forty five years and experience tells me that is rarely the case.

Lisa is entitled to her opinion but I guess there’s a reason why none of us on here are professional footballers or managers.

 

[Uxy]

In fairness, I'm sure we can all remember times that seasoned pros have made some absolute clangers.

Given how infrequently the goal kick routine has actually worked positively, and the frequency in which it's created chances for the opposition, it's absolutely fair game to question it.

As for the Rovrum game, we could have scored three but so could they. Fisher made far more decent saves than theirs did. Draw was fair.