Grimes...

[bytholwyn]

Fotmob doesn't express an opinion it merely presents stats collated by Opta. Sofascore and the BBC do similar. What significance you attach to those stats is up to the individual. If you're not interested in stats fair enough, but then you're not in a position to comment on them one way or the other.

Where stats come into their own is with the percentile figures which show you how players compare to all other players in the same position in the same league.

So when Fotmob shows that the 58 tackles won by Ronald is 100th percentile, as is his 298 duels won, you then know he's the best in league for those metrics. He's also 97th percentile or better for interceptions, recoveries and balls won in the final third. That is why I conclude that he's the best winger in the Championship defensively. Eyeballs alone tell me he's pretty good defensively, but it's only the stats that tell us that he's the best.

 

[mrploppy]

I struggle with Grimes ... and I don't know why I'm bothering wasting time commenting, TBH. On the one hand his stats are good (or very good, even) but watching him play week in week out was like pulling teeth much of the time.

The problem I have is that I do believe that stats have a place in football analysis. But where are the stats that show the negative aspects of his (or anyone else's) game? For example, that he's a shocking set piece taker - but insists on taking them all. Or that the majority of his passes are ultra-safe - it would be interesting to see one of his pass maps actually. Or that he's prone to some howlers which have led to goals. Or that he kills momentum when quickening the pace would be better.

And he's got a silly beard. And stupid, ten-to-two feet like policemen back in the day. Frank likes him though, so what do I know.

 

[bytholwyn]

It'd be a refreshing change if you explained why you rate Grimes (or indeed any other player) using examples of what you've seen. Good play that they've been a part of. Attributes that they bring to the side, instead of boring the pants off everyone by telling us what Fotmob thinks of them.

Nobody gives a shit if Ronald scores a 7.5 on Fotmob. They care whether he can beat a man with a cross. Whether he tracks back, how often he goes down unnecessarily. You know, the stuff that actually matters.

Grimes' greatest strengths based only on what I've seen are his range of passing and technical ability, both of which are Premier League level, but that's totally subjective. That highlights reel from the Potter season and Cooper's first demonstrate that in abundance.

Defensively Grimes is just average, partly down to him not being the fastest off the mark. In fact it's his lack of pace generally that's the main reason for him not gaining a move to the Premier League in my opinion.

The strongest criticism of Grimes, which I partly share, is that his natural game is low tempo. Under Potter and Cooper, and quite possibly under Sheehan, between Duff and Williams, we saw a higher tempo version of Grimes. That we saw too much of the lower tempo version under Martin and Williams is partly Grimes' fault and partly the fault of his managers in not attempting to correct it.

Under Williams we saw Grimes dropping between the centre halves and spraying diagonals to the wings, and we was very good at it. How effective it was is another matter, but that is more down to the inconsistencies of our wingers than any fault in Grimes' (or Darling's since Grimes left) play. One big reason for Coventry signing him is that they are the only team in the Championship that delivered more crosses into the box than ourselves this season.

People have tired of low tempo possession football. Me too. In that respect Grimes' departure was probably timely, although I would like to have seen how he fared under Sheehan with his higher intensity approach. As it is we now have a fresh start, and have the opportunity to bring in defensive midfielders that are a better fit for higher tempo football. I just hope they have Grimes' quality, which is a big ask.

 

[Neath_Jack]

Stats are the new facts, FACT!

I mean STATS!

 

[bytholwyn]

Enjoy.

 

[Birchgrovejack]

You have a Matt Grimes calendar dont you......

 

[T8AD365]

Grimes' greatest strengths based only on what I've seen are his range of passing and technical ability, both of which are Premier League level, but that's totally subjective. That highlights reel from the Potter season and Cooper's first demonstrate that in abundance.

Defensively Grimes is just average, partly down to him not being the fastest off the mark. In fact it's his lack of pace generally that's the main reason for him not gaining a move to the Premier League in my opinion.

The strongest criticism of Grimes, which I partly share, is that his natural game is low tempo. Under Potter and Cooper, and quite possibly under Sheehan, between Duff and Williams, we saw a higher tempo version of Grimes. That we saw too much of the lower tempo version under Martin and Williams is partly Grimes' fault and partly the fault of his managers in not attempting to correct it.

Under Williams we saw Grimes dropping between the centre halves and spraying diagonals to the wings, and we was very good at it. How effective it was is another matter, but that is more down to the inconsistencies of our wingers than any fault in Grimes' (or Darling's since Grimes left) play. One big reason for Coventry signing him is that they are the only team in the Championship that delivered more crosses into the box than ourselves this season.

People have tired of low tempo possession football. Me too. In that respect Grimes' departure was probably timely, although I would like to have seen how he fared under Sheehan with his higher intensity approach. As it is we now have a fresh start, and have the opportunity to bring in defensive midfielders that are a better fit for higher tempo football. I just hope they have Grimes' quality, which is a big ask.

There are 217 posts in this thread now and over 40 of them are yours, trying to convince the rest of us that Grimes is better than he actually is.

I don't think it's his lack of pace that's held him back, it's more the fact that he panics and looks flustered when he is put under pressure and doesn't have 30 yards of space in which to pick a pass

 

[monmouth]

You have a Matt Grimes calendar dont you......

It starts in December and goes back to January.

 

[Ringwood]

This thread needs locking..

 

[Jackareme]

Well, they are facts. Extracting just two from the posts above. 1) Grimes had 21 passes into the final third. 2) none of them were worth a wank.

That’s statswang.

As an aside, when I played Swansea league, our full back John ‘killer’ Kiley, had 100% passes into the final third, all from his own third. All whanged towards the corner flag ‘into the channel’ where he would then scream at me to chase them with 0% success. A thing of statistical beauty.

Err those 21 passes were completed - so you are comparing 0% with 100%.
How you rate your wanks is your own business.

 

[Jackareme]

Grimes' greatest strengths based only on what I've seen are his range of passing and technical ability, both of which are Premier League level, but that's totally subjective. That highlights reel from the Potter season and Cooper's first demonstrate that in abundance.

Defensively Grimes is just average, partly down to him not being the fastest off the mark. In fact it's his lack of pace generally that's the main reason for him not gaining a move to the Premier League in my opinion.

The strongest criticism of Grimes, which I partly share, is that his natural game is low tempo. Under Potter and Cooper, and quite possibly under Sheehan, between Duff and Williams, we saw a higher tempo version of Grimes. That we saw too much of the lower tempo version under Martin and Williams is partly Grimes' fault and partly the fault of his managers in not attempting to correct it.

Under Williams we saw Grimes dropping between the centre halves and spraying diagonals to the wings, and we was very good at it. How effective it was is another matter, but that is more down to the inconsistencies of our wingers than any fault in Grimes' (or Darling's since Grimes left) play. One big reason for Coventry signing him is that they are the only team in the Championship that delivered more crosses into the box than ourselves this season.

People have tired of low tempo possession football. Me too. In that respect Grimes' departure was probably timely, although I would like to have seen how he fared under Sheehan with his higher intensity approach. As it is we now have a fresh start, and have the opportunity to bring in defensive midfielders that are a better fit for higher tempo football. I just hope they have Grimes' quality, which is a big ask.

I think you hit the nail on the head mate. It is the tempo of play that has wrecked people's heads. But to advance some mitigation, he is not choosing to play quarterback between the centre backs - that is where successive managers (Lampard included) have directed him to play, and also playing alongside Fulton made it all look 10 times worse, as Fulton is very conservative and slow to move the ball.
How many times did Grimes pass to Fulton only to receive it right back?
I think the consensus is that we are all glad to have cashed in and increased the tempo of our play - BUT suggesting a combination of: he doesn't have quality, didn't try very hard, or was to blame for our tactical approach seems grossly unfair.

 

[stevethejack]

I've put him/her on ignore, only the second person ever I've done that with on here. The way to go, otherwise it's going around in circles.

 

[Neath_Jack]

I've put him/her on ignore, only the second person ever I've done that with on here. The way to go, otherwise it's going around in circles.

More fool you, you’re never going to be able to work out whether the player you’ve been watching played well or not now. STATS!

 

[monmouth]

I've put him/her on ignore, only the second person ever I've done that with on here. The way to go, otherwise it's going around in circles.

That's harsh. He has a viewpoint that is arguable and believes strongly in it. Nothing wrong with that. Contention normally promotes transcension.

I'm certainly transcending Matthew Grimes

 

[monmouth]

Err those 21 passes were completed - so you are comparing 0% with 100%.
How you rate your wanks is your own business.

I bet you're fun at a party.