Its time...

[Jack2jack]

I haven’t bothered replying until now but being as you keep mentioning it - what convinces you that a vaccine can be found? If it can it could take years of testing and trialling and then it would have to go in to production and we could never keep up with the demand, and that’s not taking in to account any of the long term heath implications it might bring. It’s a ridiculous concept.

Otherwise, I agree with both you and Monty. The only thing that will bring back some kind of normal will be high levels of immunity, but to get there lots of people will die. The strategy has to be more targeted - it’s not a one size fits all solution. Those classed as vulnerable should be protected, both physically and financially. Those in lower risk groups should have to get on with it. Mass testing has always been the key to this and Bojo’s mob have failed miserably. Anti-body testing should also be readily available. The number of deaths doesn’t tell us a great deal until we know how many people have it, or have had it.

The last part that you wrote about students is bollocks. Don’t you think, what with Brexit and now this virus, that we’ve already done enough damage to their futures? What is it with people that they are so bitter that they have to punish young people for the mistakes of older generations? Not only are they blameless, they also have to pay the highest price. Heartbreaking.

Students are a convenient scapegoat who have been served very badly. The government/OFS drive for on campus face to face teaching is a disaster. Whilst we (Liverpool) have done the best we could, bringing people around the U.K. to the hotspots of Liverpool and Manchester was a disaster waiting to happen.

I don’t disagree about antibody testing, though the length of response may prove an issue-
Would exposure in March still have sufficient levels to test positive?

I am more optimistic about a vaccine as well established vaccines out there for coronavirus infections of pigs and chickens. In theory it is fairly straightforward as it has a great big target in the spike protein. Scale up should be much easier than flu which needs either cell culture or embryonated eggs to make the vaccines.
My bigger worry is that protection may not be that great and relatively short in duration .

I have read that the seasonal flu vaccine, can interfere with the bodies natural immune system. bearing in mind that the mortality rate is higher in the over 60's category, does this not suggest that people who have had the flu vaccine in the past are more likely die from to Covid, if their immune system has been compromised. BTW, Ive heard this from medical experts, not some random on the interweb.

 

[Professor]

Students are a convenient scapegoat who have been served very badly. The government/OFS drive for on campus face to face teaching is a disaster. Whilst we (Liverpool) have done the best we could, bringing people around the U.K. to the hotspots of Liverpool and Manchester was a disaster waiting to happen.

I don’t disagree about antibody testing, though the length of response may prove an issue-
Would exposure in March still have sufficient levels to test positive?

I am more optimistic about a vaccine as well established vaccines out there for coronavirus infections of pigs and chickens. In theory it is fairly straightforward as it has a great big target in the spike protein. Scale up should be much easier than flu which needs either cell culture or embryonated eggs to make the vaccines.
My bigger worry is that protection may not be that great and relatively short in duration .

I have read that the seasonal flu vaccine, can interfere with the bodies natural immune system. bearing in mind that the mortality rate is higher in the over 60's category, does this not suggest that people who have had the flu vaccine in the past are more likely die from to Covid, if their immune system has been compromised. BTW, Ive heard this from medical experts, not some random on the interweb.

All vaccines interfere with the immune system, as do all infections. It's how an immune response is generated. The repertoire of the immune system is vast-it is estimated we can respond to 10*27 (that's 27 zeroes after 10) different antigens in T cell responses and nearly as many with antibody responses. Vaccines to closely related bugs could interfere with development of a response, but these viruses are very different groups and not at all similar. I'll be frank, most medics, unless immunology or infection experts have about 10 hours teaching of immunology and have a pretty basic understanding and I've heard a lot of strange things over the years.
What is true is that responsiveness to vaccines and general immune function tails away with age-what we call immunosenescence. Even post 30 some functions start to drop-its one reason why older people and more susceptible to infections, and the loss of function in how we regulate immune responses and the cell cycle are part of the reason cancer is increasingly common with age. We live a lot longer than our optimal function.

 

[Monty]

Hospital admissions for Covid are now higher than they were in March at the start of the first lockdown.

So there's that to think about.

Enjoy your day.

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

I haven’t bothered replying until now but being as you keep mentioning it - what convinces you that a vaccine can be found? If it can it could take years of testing and trialling and then it would have to go in to production and we could never keep up with the demand, and that’s not taking in to account any of the long term heath implications it might bring. It’s a ridiculous concept.

Otherwise, I agree with both you and Monty. The only thing that will bring back some kind of normal will be high levels of immunity, but to get there lots of people will die. The strategy has to be more targeted - it’s not a one size fits all solution. Those classed as vulnerable should be protected, both physically and financially. Those in lower risk groups should have to get on with it. Mass testing has always been the key to this and Bojo’s mob have failed miserably. Anti-body testing should also be readily available. The number of deaths doesn’t tell us a great deal until we know how many people have it, or have had it.

The last part that you wrote about students is bollocks. Don’t you think, what with Brexit and now this virus, that we’ve already done enough damage to their futures? What is it with people that they are so bitter that they have to punish young people for the mistakes of older generations? Not only are they blameless, they also have to pay the highest price. Heartbreaking.

Students are a convenient scapegoat who have been served very badly. The government/OFS drive for on campus face to face teaching is a disaster. Whilst we (Liverpool) have done the best we could, bringing people around the U.K. to the hotspots of Liverpool and Manchester was a disaster waiting to happen.

I don’t disagree about antibody testing, though the length of response may prove an issue-
Would exposure in March still have sufficient levels to test positive?

I am more optimistic about a vaccine as well established vaccines out there for coronavirus infections of pigs and chickens. In theory it is fairly straightforward as it has a great big target in the spike protein. Scale up should be much easier than flu which needs either cell culture or embryonated eggs to make the vaccines.
My bigger worry is that protection may not be that great and relatively short in duration .

Students are a scapegoat, for sure. They're an easy target. So are the unis to a degree. Some of the high numbers we're seeing have come out of routine testing programmes, so comparisons of infection rates with the wider community are not a fair comparison. Makes for good headlines though. Other unis have lower rates of infection than the wider communities they are in.

I'm not denying they have problems in some places though. It wasn't thought out very well, and the unions were absent while all the planning was going on through the early- to mid-summer, which didn't help. What a mess.

 

[sainthelens]

Hospital admissions for Covid are now higher than they were in March at the start of the first lockdown.

So there's that to think about.

Enjoy your day.

But the death rate nowhere near to May/June, they've found a way to manage most cases.

 

[K23]

So are the unis to a degree

If that was intentional, very good! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[DwightYorkeSuperstar]

Both hospitals in Liverpool are now full, whilst intensive care beds in Liverpool are now 95% full and rising.

To those of you who wish to discontinue current measures, what criteria would you use to decide who is allowed a bed in intensive care and who is left to die?

https://www.ft.com/content/53272e22-a42b-4f10-8744-004d0328fdfa

 

[sainthelens]

Both hospitals in Liverpool are now full, whilst intensive care beds in Liverpool are now 95% full and rising.

To those of you who wish to discontinue current measures, what criteria would you use to decide who is allowed a bed in intensive care and who is left to die?

https://www.ft.com/content/53272e22-a42b-4f10-8744-004d0328fdfa

That's what the Nightingale hospitals are for. No shortage of beds.

 

[Professor]

Both hospitals in Liverpool are now full, whilst intensive care beds in Liverpool are now 95% full and rising.

To those of you who wish to discontinue current measures, what criteria would you use to decide who is allowed a bed in intensive care and who is left to die?

https://www.ft.com/content/53272e22-a42b-4f10-8744-004d0328fdfa

That's what the Nightingale hospitals are for. No shortage of beds.

So that's fine to use up all of Merseyside's ambulance resource to ferry everyone to Manchester? 143 deaths today. Highest since early June. Hospitalisation rising quickly. Complete balls up.

Remember when we did not test in March we may have been at 100K cases per day.

 

[exiledclaseboy]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dvla-staff-claim-been-seven-19097187

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54529261

 

[Jack12345]

The last six months have not shown you the majority can't even spell it let alone act responsibly? If you want this virus to go on for the next 25 years then let people do as they please and protect/slowly kill 'the vulnerable'. That would probably suit the Tories down to the ground. They should just make people wear a mask everytime they leave their house so there is no mixed messages, none of this put it on in the shop then you can take it off outside. Caught without a mask? Have a fine. Caught a second time? Spend a month on house arrest with a nice little ankle bracelet. That'll learn em.

IF they do not get a vaccine than the virus will go on you header, what people are trying to tell you is we can not keep going around in circles by locking down and then lifting the lockdown then locking down again in the hope of finding a cure that may not come for years if at all, doing that will not get us anywhere, already 3 million Cancer tests have been postponed millions will lose there jobs and you think wearing a mask and good spelling is the solution. :roll:

 

[Jack12345]

The last six months have not shown you the majority can't even spell it let alone act responsibly? If you want this virus to go on for the next 25 years then let people do as they please and protect/slowly kill 'the vulnerable'. That would probably suit the Tories down to the ground. They should just make people wear a mask everytime they leave their house so there is no mixed messages, none of this put it on in the shop then you can take it off outside. Caught without a mask? Have a fine. Caught a second time? Spend a month on house arrest with a nice little ankle bracelet. That'll learn em.

Firstly, a vaccine will be found, so 25 years is way off the mark.

Secondly, you mention the Tories, I couldn't give a fuck about politics.

Finally, yes, I agree stronger penalties should be introduced, for instance, any student found to be breaking lockdown regulations should have thier course revoked and be sent home after self isolating...

And that's just a start mate

A vaccine Will be found you say, well they have managed to find a few in history i suppose, Measles Polio etc, but then they have failed to find one in so many other deceases and viruses, so we best take your a vaccine will be found comment with a pinch of salt.

 

[Monty]

you think wearing a mask and good spelling is the solution. :roll:

Correct

Good grammar shows self discipline, which would improve the situation along with wearing masks

 

[Jack12345]

Correct

Good grammar shows self discipline, which would improve the situation along with wearing masks

Some of the most disciplined and successful people in history had trouble spelling and putting sentences together simply because of there Dysgraphia or Dyslexia you Muppet.

 

[Monty]

Some of the most disciplined and successful people in history had trouble spelling and putting sentences together simply because of there Dysgraphia or Dyslexia you Muppet.

Who?