Labour

[DJack]

I don’t think I mentioned hard left did I? But if I did and that’s laughable your notion that Corbyn is centre left is frankly astonishing. You just keep showing your ignorance of Labour movement history. Student Union politics. Labour is better off without you.

Karma is a bitch eh!

You mention Karma in relation to starmer but fail to realise it also applies to the Corbyn/momentum/McClusky fustercluck that got HAMMERED BY THE (THEN) WORST TORY PARTY IN HISTORY.

Give your head a wobble.

 

[Neath_Jack]

If more people voted differently locally than they do nationally, taking into account local issues, I think many councils would be in a better state. I’d think twice about voting to remove Neath’s Labour MP though as you’ll either be handing a seat to the Tories or at the very least depriving Labour of one. That’s another symptom of our fucked up electoral system I’m afraid. I’ve no enthusiasm for my local Labour MP at all but I’ll vote for her again in a general election for those reasons.

We can't keep going through these elections like that, voting for anyone to keep to Tory lot out. It needs change, needs a charismatic communicator, why can't the Greens or the Lib Dems take that mantle. The voting system isn't going to change, it will always favour the two big lot. Change won't happen overnight, but it'll never happen if we keep voting for anyone but Tory. I'll never vote for Kinnock, ever.

 

[Itchysphincter]

Antoniazzi.

Could be better, could be worse

Nia Griffith seems okay, bit if an old warhorse, not really sure how effective she really is though. Gone quiet the last couple of years.

 

[Uxy]

If more people voted differently locally than they do nationally, taking into account local issues, I think many councils would be in a better state. I’d think twice about voting to remove Neath’s Labour MP though as you’ll either be handing a seat to the Tories or at the very least depriving Labour of one. That’s another symptom of our fucked up electoral system I’m afraid. I’ve no enthusiasm for my local Labour MP at all but I’ll vote for her again in a general election for those reasons.

Curious constituency is Neath. Tories consistently second at the GE but have absolutely no base. Plaid nowhere but very much the opposite, even where you wouldn't expect them to (Bryncoch for example). Hain, for all his faults, was very popular and active locally. Labour have got by on that sentiment just about. When it comes to the Senedd elections, the Tories are well into third.

All going to be moot if the boundary changes come into force as it's merging with Swansea East. Any donkey will get elected for Labour, as we've seen.

 

[Professor]

If more people voted differently locally than they do nationally, taking into account local issues, I think many councils would be in a better state. I’d think twice about voting to remove Neath’s Labour MP though as you’ll either be handing a seat to the Tories or at the very least depriving Labour of one. That’s another symptom of our fucked up electoral system I’m afraid. I’ve no enthusiasm for my local Labour MP at all but I’ll vote for her again in a general election for those reasons.

Curious constituency is Neath. Tories consistently second at the GE but have absolutely no base. Plaid nowhere but very much the opposite, even where you wouldn't expect them to (Bryncoch for example). Hain, for all his faults, was very popular and active locally. Labour have got by on that sentiment just about. When it comes to the Senedd elections, the Tories are well into third.

All going to be moot if the boundary changes come into force as it's merging with Swansea East. Any donkey will get elected for Labour, as we've seen.

There's lots of complexities. All Wirral, including affluent West Wirral, and Chester are labour seats-some like Ellesmere Port and Neston (where I live) fell to the Blair landslide and having become relatively safe Labour seats-yet the Tories have made inroads into much poorer NE Wales. I just wonder if the renaissance of Merseyside, Manchester and into Cheshire under Blair & Brown and a lot of EU money have changed the vote, whereas "Red Wall' Lancashire and NE Wales towns are more Brexit and Boris-loving and have not had the same changes,

 

[Best_loser]

https://order-order.com/2021/09/07/wales-boundary-review-announces-draft-boundaries-eight-constituencies-axed/

 

[Uxy]

Curious constituency is Neath. Tories consistently second at the GE but have absolutely no base. Plaid nowhere but very much the opposite, even where you wouldn't expect them to (Bryncoch for example). Hain, for all his faults, was very popular and active locally. Labour have got by on that sentiment just about. When it comes to the Senedd elections, the Tories are well into third.

All going to be moot if the boundary changes come into force as it's merging with Swansea East. Any donkey will get elected for Labour, as we've seen.

There's lots of complexities. All Wirral, including affluent West Wirral, and Chester are labour seats-some like Ellesmere Port and Neston (where I live) fell to the Blair landslide and having become relatively safe Labour seats-yet the Tories have made inroads into much poorer NE Wales. I just wonder if the renaissance of Merseyside, Manchester and into Cheshire under Blair & Brown and a lot of EU money have changed the vote, whereas "Red Wall' Lancashire and NE Wales towns are more Brexit and Boris-loving and have not had the same changes,

I don't think it's a coincidence that areas that had suffered most in the last decade, or felt they were left behind while investment went elsewhere, voted for Brexit and then Johnson. They had been constantly told that it was those horrible immigrants that were making their life worse, and if we get rid of them everything will get better. I don't think we should ignore the impact social media has had on that, or the rise of populism elsewhere too. It's a constant barrage if you get your news from Facebook rather than the BBC.

In many ways it's slightly miraculous how well Labour has done in Wales over the last decade. A lot of that most recently is due to Drakeford being seen to manage Covid far better than Westminster did, or at least seen to be doing his best and not taking the mick like those at Westminster did. That seems to be manifesting itself in a much stronger Welsh political identity than has been the case previously. History is obviously a big part too.

As you say, lots of complexities and I don't think we can take as much notice of historic voting patterns to guess how the next GE will go. The traditional Tory heartlands are as much under threat from the Lib Dems and even Greens as the Labour ones are from the Tories. Voters seem far savvier in terms of tactical voting, if the by-elections are anything to go by. If the opposition had any sense they'd work together. I'm not convinced they do.

 

[Ebo]

Karma is a bitch eh!

You mention Karma in relation to starmer but fail to realise it also applies to the Corbyn/momentum/McClusky fustercluck that got HAMMERED BY THE (THEN) WORST TORY PARTY IN HISTORY.

Give your head a wobble.

Read the Forde report on how funds were deliberately diverted from winnable areas, or how reports into misconduct was blocked by the right of the party, or the thousands of whatsapp messages sabotaging a campaign, the weaponisation of AS by party members who are still serving. Add in Brexit and a massive media smear campaign then no wonder he lost. Your boy Starmer would not have done any better. Jess Phillips was practically celebrating after it.

Now give YOUR head a wobble son. labour are rotten.

 

[Ebo]

f**k all to do with them. The problem with Labour is the backstabbing factions that are still there like the vile Jess Phillips who was laughing in election defeat, those who diverted funds from red seats in the last election.

Read the Forde report before commenting. Labour is rotten to the core.

What page of the forde report details how Jess Phillips was secretly laughing at labour losing the 2019 election and not literally anything else at all?

Your spiteful obsession with her is a definite red flag that you’ve got a problem with women

You horrendous cunt. How dare you.

I have no problem with women whatsoever, but I have no respect for odious individuals like Phillips or Ian Austin, regardless of gender - that does not come into it.

People like you are everything that is wrong with the labour party, dragging it further to the right. I bet you cheered when Starmer sacked Tarry.

 

[Ebo]

Social media posts are seething about it from Labour members. Karma is a bitch eh!

Yes I’ve noticed the likes of Burgon and McDonnell having a go at Starmer.

Even Zarah Sultana had a dig and she is one of the decent ones left

https://twitter.com/zarahsultana/status/1552264638154383361?s=20&t=7nHOW9xvh0Fb4Z4hejbYrQ

 

[Ebo]

Almost everyone I've seen spouting about the Forde report elsewhere clearly hasn't read it. I have, admittedly on a skim. The behaviour from both sides left a lot to be desired and the selective usual twitter shite trying to make tribal points is laughably pathetic.

Corbyn was a useless stupid disaster, and if Starmer turns out similar the whole country is finished. I have serious reservations about Starmer that are getting worse. He seems scared of his own shadow, paralysed by caution. But...I voted for Labour despite Corbyn. Now it's time his fanboys got behind Starmer, because the choice is Starmer or more Tory. Nothing else. Just that. If you're anti Starmer and undermining him all the time, you are supporting Tory re-election. Pick a side.

When Labour get elected all you Corbyn shaggers can tear into him to your heart's content. Then is the time for the policy argument. Never is the time for all this pathetic pining for a proven failure like Corbyn, who delivered, needing nobody else's help, the worst election outcome for Labour in eons. Anyone who thinks that was the fault of Labour staffers or people like Jess Phillips is seriously deranged.

Yet the people who committed the worst wrong doings are still there FFS! It was watered down!

 

[K23]

If more people voted differently locally than they do nationally, taking into account local issues, I think many councils would be in a better state. I’d think twice about voting to remove Neath’s Labour MP though as you’ll either be handing a seat to the Tories or at the very least depriving Labour of one. That’s another symptom of our fucked up electoral system I’m afraid. I’ve no enthusiasm for my local Labour MP at all but I’ll vote for her again in a general election for those reasons.

We can't keep going through these elections like that, voting for anyone to keep to Tory lot out. It needs change, needs a charismatic communicator, why can't the Greens or the Lib Dems take that mantle. The voting system isn't going to change, it will always favour the two big lot. Change won't happen overnight, but it'll never happen if we keep voting for anyone but Tory. I'll never vote for Kinnock, ever.

I'm sorry, but I have to fundamentally disagree with just about everything you've said there.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't keep going through these elections voting for anyone to keep the Tory out. and that is precisely what I hope a huge percentage of the electorate will do next time.

However, it is clear the political landscape has changed over the past couple of decades and the rise of the SNP taking getting on for 40 formerly Labour seats North of the border has probably ensured that Labour will never again be able to get an overall majority but provided the Tories don't, then change to the electoral system can and must happen. It will take Labour to realise their days with an overall majority in the house have gone but if they do and Labour, SNP & Lib Dems and others significantly outnumber the Tories in Westminster, the next step has to be to replace FPTP with PR and drag the UK up from its current archaic system of misgovernment to something approaching that of Sweden and many other progressive societies.

So, when you say Change won't happen overnight, but it'll never happen if we keep voting for anyone but Tory., I 100% disagree with the 2nd part of that sentence because, at the moment, I can't see any other process that can put us on the route to electoral change in this country.

 

[Ebo]

We can't keep going through these elections like that, voting for anyone to keep to Tory lot out. It needs change, needs a charismatic communicator, why can't the Greens or the Lib Dems take that mantle. The voting system isn't going to change, it will always favour the two big lot. Change won't happen overnight, but it'll never happen if we keep voting for anyone but Tory. I'll never vote for Kinnock, ever.

I'm sorry, but I have to fundamentally disagree with just about everything you've said there.

In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't keep going through these elections voting for anyone to keep the Tory out. and that is precisely what I hope a huge percentage of the electorate will do next time.

However, it is clear the political landscape has changed over the past couple of decades and the rise of the SNP taking getting on for 40 formerly Labour seats North of the border has probably ensured that Labour will never again be able to get an overall majority but provided the Tories don't, then change to the electoral system can and must happen. It will take Labour to realise their days with an overall majority in the house have gone but if they do and Labour, SNP & Lib Dems and others significantly outnumber the Tories in Westminster, the next step has to be to replace FPTP with PR and drag the UK up from its current archaic system of misgovernment to something approaching that of Sweden and many other progressive societies.

So, when you say Change won't happen overnight, but it'll never happen if we keep voting for anyone but Tory., I 100% disagree with the 2nd part of that sentence because, at the moment, I can't see any other process that can put us on the route to electoral change in this country.

The only way Wales will get the government it wants and never a Tory one is through independence. Otherwise it’ll be the same old shit every few years.

In other news, Starmer has worked out what a woman is. Pathetic attempt to bury bad news

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/27/starmer-calls-for-a-bank-holiday-if-england-win-womens-euro-2022-final?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2CamB1QaYRfi8_dkt1nM3sul-gOhQC34NVymnveQuQiLsKElm53X85rqM#Echobox=1658994083

 

[AceJack]

What page of the forde report details how Jess Phillips was secretly laughing at labour losing the 2019 election and not literally anything else at all?

Your spiteful obsession with her is a definite red flag that you’ve got a problem with women

You horrendous c**t. How dare you.

I have no problem with women whatsoever, but I have no respect for odious individuals like Phillips or Ian Austin, regardless of gender - that does not come into it.

People like you are everything that is wrong with the labour party, dragging it further to the right. I bet you cheered when Starmer sacked Tarry.

You are still absolutely seething at a woman because she laughed at something off camera once 3 years ago. And you keep bringing it up. I sincerely hope you aren’t ever near women unsupervised because I’m worried how you’d react if you took a slight at something innocuous like say, laughter.

People like me are the lifeblood of the Labour movement but I’m not so arrogant to think my outlook is the only moral or correct one. Your lot have been nothing but a drag on the labour movement. In the history of the labour movement, your faction have won precisely zero elections and you’ve taken precisely zero on board from people who don’t already agree with you.

And for what it’s worth I think sacking Sam Tarry is a mistake. MPs should be allowed to visit picket lines of legal and justified strikes, even if it’s not the party position to outright support those strikes.

 

[AceJack]

Yes I’ve noticed the likes of Burgon and McDonnell having a go at Starmer.

Even Zarah Sultana had a dig and she is one of the decent ones left

https://twitter.com/zarahsultana/status/1552264638154383361?s=20&t=7nHOW9xvh0Fb4Z4hejbYrQ

An antisemite who’s come straight out of student politics and into Parliament, nearly throwing away a safe labour seat in the process?

If she’s the future of the hard left, you’re toast