New Manager

[bytholwyn]

"They are not interested in 50-pass sequences leading to a shot.

The sooner they can generate the goal-scoring opportunity the better because that’s ultimately the best opportunity to catch the opposition’s press in a disorganized state and exploit their systemic weaknesses."

I think the fan base and Montague will be very much behind this sort of approach.

 

[Dr. Winston]

You're making the assumption that possession football is inevitably slow tempo stuff.

No, I'm making the point that in recent years the club has made a lot of noises about "identity", and "Dominating the ball", appointed two duffers in Martin and Williams as a result, and is now making worryingly similar noises again.

In any case, 59% is not "dominating" possession as we've become used to it. Having barely just over half of the ball would no doubt be considered by the aforementioned Gruesome Twosome as borderline Route One stuff.

 

[Smurph]

No, I'm making the point that in recent years the club has made a lot of noises about "identity", and "Dominating the ball", appointed two duffers in Martin and Williams as a result, and is now making worryingly similar noises again.

In any case, 59% is not "dominating" possession as we've become used to it. Having barely just over half of the ball would no doubt be considered by the aforementioned Gruesome Twosome as borderline Route One stuff.

Over the last three years or so the majority of possession has been in our own half.

Possession with a purpose I can get behind. What I can't get behind any longer is possession for the sack of it.

The master of this tippy tappy nonsense has fallen on his arse at City this season, The game is evolving thankfully and if we are to evolve as a club we need to abandon this keeping the ball obsession.

 

[bytholwyn]

No, I'm making the point that in recent years the club has made a lot of noises about "identity", and "Dominating the ball", appointed two duffers in Martin and Williams as a result, and is now making worryingly similar noises again.

In any case, 59% is not "dominating" possession as we've become used to it. Having barely just over half of the ball would no doubt be considered by the aforementioned Gruesome Twosome as borderline Route One stuff.

Under Williams we averaged just over 60% possession, so pretty much the same as Hammarby under Hellberg. What I'm sure we can all agree is what matters is the use we make of that possession, with direct, attacking play grafted on to dominating possession. Hellberg's track record shows that it is possible to have your cake and eat it.

 

[Skippyjack]

Word salad bollocks.. we've got another Jonah here.. we need someone real, not someone sounding like a footballing deity, we're in the 2nd division.. just win your 50/50s.. the league is so sh*t, quality play is rare in this division, step up ten yards when a team is f*cking about with it, hunt in packs within the confines of your position, in transition (another word full of bollocks) get tighter.. just basic disciplined football gets you points in this division

 

[Dr. Winston]

What I'm sure we can all agree is what matters is the use we make of that possession, with direct, attacking play grafted on to dominating possession. Hellberg's track record shows that it is possible to have your cake and eat it.

Of course, and nobody is disputing that, but that's not what we've had for most of the last four years. Very much the opposite, and it's concerning that the club is repeating its words of the past instead of acknowledging that most people have had a titful of our recent "identity".

 

[3swan]

Of course, and nobody is disputing that, but that's not what we've had for most of the last four years. Very much the opposite, and it's concerning that the club is repeating its words of the past instead of acknowledging that most people have had a titful of our recent "identity".

Agree

Hopefully the last paragraph shows more intent

""So as long as we have somebody who respects our traditions but also wants to drive the club forward tactically, that's fine with me, as long as that leads to us performing well on the pitch."

Swansea City: Richard Montague seeks manager 'at forefront of game' to replace Luke Williams

New director of football Richard Montague says Swansea City want a manager who is at the "forefront of the game" as they seek a long-term replacement for Luke Williams.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nocountryforoldjack]

Identity.... Yawn. Identity isn't a static thing, it is supposed to constantly evolve. Amazon has an identity, do you think it's the same identity as when Jeff was selling books out of his garage?

This league constantly changes, we need to adapt or die innit.

 

[bytholwyn]

Of course, and nobody is disputing that, but that's not what we've had for most of the last four years. Very much the opposite, and it's concerning that the club is repeating its words of the past instead of acknowledging that most people have had a titful of our recent "identity".

It would be good if Montague and the club generally could acknowledge that the low tempo of our play has played a significant part in the decline on our support and underperformance on the pitch. However, they will have an understanding of where we've gone wrong and will be aware of the trend towards more direct football. I'm confident that the next manager will be appointed with this in mind. Perhaps I'm being naive, but my gut feeling is that Montague gets it.

 

[monmouth]

At the risk of being reductionist again, “possession football” is just an abstract construct. Possession is when you have the ball and applies to both sides. When you have the ball your objective should be to stick it in the opposition net ‘prompto’ by whatever means best fits the resources at your disposal, preferably in an exciting way by fast, pacy, incisive passing, or early shooting (see J Piroe). When you don’t have the ball then you defend for your life to get the ball back and keep it out of your net. So yes of course the more possession you have, the better, if you are trying to score goals with it. If not, it’s just a load of old bollocks.

It’s not ‘philosophy’, it’s just football. Liverpool under Klopp, not Man City under Guardiola.

 

[bytholwyn]

At the risk of being reductionist again, “possession football” is just an abstract construct. Possession is when you have the ball and applies to both sides. When you have the ball your objective should be to stick it in the opposition net ‘prompto’ by whatever means best fits the resources at your disposal, preferably in an exciting way by fast, pacy, incisive passing, or early shooting (see J Piroe). When you don’t have the ball then you defend for your life to get the ball back and keep it out of your net. So yes of course the more possession you have, the better, if you are trying to score goals with it. If not, it’s just a load of old bollocks.

It’s not ‘philosophy’, it’s just football. Liverpool under Klopp, not Man City under Guardiola.

In assessing the new manager applicants I hope, and expect, us to dig a lot deeper than just looking at overall possession stats. They matter up to a point, but I'd be much more interested in the stats on final third and opposition penalty area touches, and also our direct speed, which is a metric of how quickly the ball is progressed. We need to get away from the snail's pace football we saw under Martin to something a lot more dynamic. Hellberg has got exactly the right credentials and should be affordable. But there will be others out there.

 

[AusinIsOurHero]

Montague says playing philosophy will be a key factor in the recruitment process.

He believes getting results through possession-based football "has to be the goal" for a club whose considerable successes in the last two decades have been based on that approach.

"The important bit for me is that we find somebody who, alongside vital things like character, how they engage with players and engage with supporters and how they are as a leader of the football club, is at the forefront of where the game is going," Montague said.

"It's somebody who can help us be true to our identity, which I think is so important. I have never come across a club that has such a strong identity in terms of playing style.

"We need to be at the forefront of what's going on in football, on the data side, the recruitment side, strength and conditioning, the medical side. That's the only way to get to where we want to get to.

"So as long as we have somebody who respects our traditions but also wants to drive the club forward tactically, that's fine with me, as long as that leads to us performing well on the pitch."


Here we go again. Insert that quote about insanity, repeating mistakes etc yourself if you wish. I cant be bothered.

Either his quotes are part of a larger piece are have ben taken in isolation, or he hasn't read the room at all.
We've spent the last few years being bored to death of possession obsessed coaches who supposedly wanted to be true to our 'identity'.
Show him a half empty ground at the next home game & see if he still thinks that's what we want/need.

 

[bytholwyn]

Either his quotes are part of a larger piece are have ben taken in isolation, or he hasn't read the room at all.
We've spent the last few years being bored to death of possession obsessed coaches who supposedly wanted to be true to our 'identity'.
Show him a half empty ground at the next home game & see if he still thinks that's what we want/need.

We need to be possession led and attack more quickly. There are plenty of sides that manage thar combination. Most obviously Liverpool, but also clubs further down the food chain, such as Hammarby. I hope Montague realises there's a lot of discontent in the fan base about how slow our build up play was under Martin, and to an extent, Williams. Perhaps the fan forum will be helpful in that regard. We need to be smarter, but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[FearOfAJackPlanet]

We need to be possession led and attack more quickly. There are plenty of sides that manage thar combination. Most obviously Liverpool, but also clubs further down the food chain, such as Hammarby. I hope Montague realises there's a lot of discontent in the fan base about how slow our build up play was under Martin, and to an extent, Williams. Perhaps the fan forum will be helpful in that regard. We need to be smarter, but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Why do we need to be possession led? Why this is apparently a pre-requisite?

Don't we just want to be good, exciting, successful? Football styles come and go out of fashion, it's a cyclical game in many ways. I don't see why we'd want to anchor ourselves to a particular style forever as that leaves us with fewer options. We've become a slave to the idea of possession football for a while now, it brought us a decade of Grimes playing parody football and Martin/Williams sucking the life out of us one 'brave moment' at a time as they tell us how 'educated and sophisticated' we are as fans to try and butter us up to take more of this sh*te.

I'm not saying we should rule out any manager that likes possession football, but we need to weed out anyone who wants to come here and do the Martin/Williams playbook again, who thinks as long as we get 60% possession, we'll all be happy. Personally, if it was me, I WOULD be tempted to rule out anyone who talks about possession football. I just want them to talk about getting a winning team/culture together; if they mentioned the P-word: red flag.

 

[bytholwyn]

Being possession led leaves a lot of room for variety tactically speaking, but all our success has come when we've dominated the ball. Our decline in the Premier League correlated season after season with a decline in our average possession from Monk through to Carvahal, when we ended up with an average 42% possession. More recently under Duff, we completely lost our way, without being possession-led, with no coherent identity, and a recruitment strategy that was all over the place.

We don't have to have a possession-led identity to succeed. In fact, you can argue that Stoke have lost their way because they went away from their direct approach under Pulis. But there is a lot to be said for having a consistent identity whatever that is. Ours happens to be a possession heavy one, and there's no good reason for going away from it, given the success it's brought us, and the fact that possession-led sides tend to outperform their competitors at every level of the game. If we chop and change all the time then you don't get to have alignment between academy and recruitment and that's a recipe for chaos.

But being possession-led is a small part of our identity. There is a lot of room for tactical variation within that broad scope, and I think most would like us to evolve towards a Bielsa-style high tempo and away from Martin turgid-ball.