‘Investment’

[PSumbler]

It’s a lot easier said than done, every club uo and down the country are looking for good, cheap players. We had a golden generation coming through, reeves etc utilising the European market which is harder to do nowadays due to Brexit (I think anyway).

We’ve made more sales than the majority of clubs in this league, downes, piroe, all the premier league legacy lads like Mcburnie, James, roberts, and we still need external investment to survive in this league.

I don’t see your way of thinking working unless we drop at least one league to be honest, but happy to agree to disagree.

So the alternative is to remain in need of a few million injection every season ?

And of course manage our business well enough that all we do and have has a suitable ROI

 

[Lampeterjack]

So the alternative is to remain in need of a few million injection every season ?

And of course manage our business well enough that all we do and have has a suitable ROI

Which the owners are doing, and getting new investment in to fund that.

They are not lumbering it on the club, we don’t owe them the money they are putting in, like Cardiff do with Tan and Dalman for example.

Have I got it right in saying you’d prefer to be fan owned? Where’s the money coming from, who is stumping up the operational costs, or the money to buy these good players we can trade?

 

[PSumbler]

Which the owners are doing, and getting new investment in to fund that.

They are not lumbering it on the club, we don’t owe them the money they are putting in, like Cardiff do with Tan and Dalman for example.

Have I got it right in saying you’d prefer to be fan owned? Where’s the money coming from, who is stumping up the operational costs, or the money to buy these good players we can trade?

No you haven't got that right. I have never advocated us being fan owned. Even when I headed the fans organisation, its simply not a sustainable model for a league club IMO and even less so the higher you get up the football league

The reasons being exactly the ones you highlighted

 

[DuffleCoat]

Read again what I said because you certainly misinterpreted it

It’s fine putting money in but there has to come a time where the business doesn’t need that investment as it’s sustainable

Indeed, but that’s not going to be now is it.

It will be when we are promoted. Income is too scarce at this level to sustain a serious and continuous promotion challenge year in year out.

If this extra money was being charged to the club then I would understand the complaints, but it isn’t.

This is literally what most have been hoping for, actual external investment.

There is a reason we only managed to do it once without any investment in our history; it’s incredibly, incredibly unlikely.

 

[LeonWasTheDog's]

Swiss Ramble looked at the sustainability of Championship clubs a few years back, and I doubt much has changed.

There’s a short summary below, but essentially most clubs rely on owner financing. Genuine sustainability is normally a pie in the sky dream at this level (as our owners are slowly working out).
https://footballeconomyv2.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-authoritative-swiss-ramble-has-now.html?m=1

 

[Niigata Jack]

Swiss Ramble looked at the sustainability of Championship clubs a few years back, and I doubt much has changed.

There’s a short summary below, but essentially most clubs rely on owner financing. Genuine sustainability is normally a pie in the sky dream at this level (as our owners are slowly working out).
https://footballeconomyv2.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-authoritative-swiss-ramble-has-now.html?m=1

Well that puts this thread to bed, as last at least.

 

[Lampeterjack]

Well that puts this thread to bed, as last at least.

Yes, I agree. Every club relies on owner funding, and without it, we simply wouldn't compete and end up back in the lower leagues. As far as I was aware, we don't owe the owners anything, as their investments are coming in the way of shares, if we did, my thinking would be different.

<<The scale of owner investment in the Championship is breathtaking with three clubs 'in and around' £300m: Aston Villa £310m, QPR £299m and Brighton £279m. Other clubs over £100m include: Cardiff City £182m, Fulham £178m, and Derby County £156m.>> Our neighbours owe Vincent Tan a ridiculous amount of money, and they are spending huge again this seaason in terms of wage bill and they will spend in January, if this doesn't result in promotion, things will begin to look bleak again for them in the long run.

 

[DuffleCoat]

Yes, I agree. Every club relies on owner funding, and without it, we simply wouldn't compete and end up back in the lower leagues. As far as I was aware, we don't owe the owners anything, as their investments are coming in the way of shares, if we did, my thinking would be different.

<<The scale of owner investment in the Championship is breathtaking with three clubs 'in and around' £300m: Aston Villa £310m, QPR £299m and Brighton £279m. Other clubs over £100m include: Cardiff City £182m, Fulham £178m, and Derby County £156m.>> Our neighbours owe Vincent Tan a ridiculous amount of money, and they are spending huge again this seaason in terms of wage bill and they will spend in January, if this doesn't result in promotion, things will begin to look bleak again for them in the long run.

Correct.

While people still make fun of Huw Jenkins for saying selling to these owners would “take us to the next level”, he was of course talking about the context of ownership, not on field league positioning.

He was pretty clear in his explanation which people have since ignored.

Once we got relegated (and we were going to eventually), unless we had owners who could put actual money into the club, we would go into free fall.

Huw and Co were not able put external funds into the club and were not greatly connected in order to source investment.

I think it’s high time people actually start to get behind our ownership group. They won’t always make the correct decision, but it won’t be for lack of care or trying.

 

[Longlostjack]

Did Huw do due diligence? If so, was that due diligence report made available to the Trust? If not, why not?

 

[J_B]

Did Huw do due diligence? If so, was that due diligence report made available to the Trust? If not, why not?

I don’t know whether he did due diligence. He kept it all secret from the Trust so he certainly wasn’t going to make it available to them if he did.

 

[DuffleCoat]

Did Huw do due diligence? If so, was that due diligence report made available to the Trust? If not, why not?

To suggest that - would mean you think they are doing something worthy of vetoing the sale based on that due diligence.

As we have discussed in this thread, they are putting money in to not just keep us afloat but ensuring we have enough to be able to reinvest sales back into the playing squad also.

The due diligence whether carried out or not results in the same thing, them doing what fans have wanted from owners for decades.

What am I missing?

 

[Lampeterjack]

https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/1725031570854072574?s=20

 

[waynekerr55]

Correct.

While people still make fun of Huw Jenkins for saying selling to these owners would “take us to the next level”, he was of course talking about the context of ownership, not on field league positioning.

He was pretty clear in his explanation which people have since ignored.

Once we got relegated (and we were going to eventually), unless we had owners who could put actual money into the club, we would go into free fall.

Huw and Co were not able put external funds into the club and were not greatly connected in order to source investment.

I think it’s high time people actually start to get behind our ownership group. They won’t always make the correct decision, but it won’t be for lack of care or trying.

One problem with this supposed "defence" almost all of the funding has been similar to what they could have done previously. They wanted to cash out and who could blame them. Spare me the next level/doing what was right for the club spiel, as it's demonstrably bollocks.

 

[Lampeterjack]

One problem with this supposed "defence" almost all of the funding has been similar to what they could have done previously. They wanted to cash out and who could blame them. Spare me the next level/doing what was right for the club spiel, as it's demonstrably bollocks.

Almost all?! Nowhere near. They have sourced £30m of investment, and that's only this year, Jake Silverstein etc came before, Huw Jenkins and the rest could not have done that. We're keeping the lights on, and trying to strengthen the team with external investment, like every other club in the league are doing.

 

[waynekerr55]

Almost all?! Nowhere near. They have sourced £30m of investment, and that's only this year, Jake Silverstein etc came before, Huw Jenkins and the rest could not have done that. We're keeping the lights on, and trying to strengthen the team with external investment, like every other club in the league are doing.

That is now, not back when they were making their disingenuous claims.

To be honest if I was part of the ownership group if be asking some serious questions of whoever did the due diligence