‘Investment’

[Niigata Jack]

So now the tax payer and people of Swansea aren’t being asked to stump up the cash for stadium, and instead receive revenue, and the club can maximise all sponsorship potential, which granted, hasn’t happened as of yet.

But the club doesn't own the asset that's the stadium and they were paying rent on its use so they were receiving revenue anyway.

On your 2nd point :-

That's what Pearlman was brought over to do, but he failed on numerous ventures, except from lining his pockets with his exorbitant wage, Gude is here now, what's his role to be then?

 

[Lampeterjack]

But the club doesn't own the asset that's the stadium and they were paying rent on its use so they were receiving revenue anyway.

On your 2nd point :-

That's what Pearlman was brought over to do, but he failed on numerous ventures, except from lining his pockets with his exorbitant wage, Gude is here now, what's his role to be then?

Were they?

<< Rob Stewart, Council Leader, said: “This is great news for all concerned. For the first time the council tax payers of Swansea will see a return on the investment they made in the Liberty Stadium.

“This is a deal that benefits the Swans, Ospreys and the Council. It provides the Swans with the freedom to commercialise the stadium, while the council tax payers who will not only receive an income, but also additional money from any stadium naming rights, plus the provision of new 3G pitches across the authority.”>>


So again, who is paying for us to be fan owned? What do we actually want, no one is answering the questions.

 

[Niigata Jack]

Yeah the people who put the money in to get the success sold the trust out, no doubt about it. But that’s where we are, where’s the money coming from for us to be fan owned? I’m not getting an answer to that question

** also not downplaying the work of the trust during our success, but they haven’t got the capital to fund this club now, not at any level I’d argue, never mind championship.

If they had been given the opportunity to even discuss the possibility of selling most if not all of the 21% share holding that would have at least given them a starting point and the interest from the funds from said sale would have made extra money and with that the probability of a greater number of new memberships would have further added to those funds.

Afterall the trust was setup to help safeguard the club

 

[Lampeterjack]

If they had been given the opportunity to even discuss the possibility of selling most if not all of the 21% share holding that would have at least given them a starting point and the interest from the funds from said sale would have made extra money and with that the probability of a greater number of new memberships would have further added to those funds.

Afterall the trust was setup to help safeguard the club

Yeah I’m not disputing they were stitched up. But they were, we can blame Jenkins and the rest of them for that, but from where we are now, we’ve had investment come in, which isn’t lumbering the club with debt, but this still isn’t enough.

So I keep asking, what do we want? The owners to show zero ambition and sell out assets without replacing and use academy graduates, not all of which will be ready. So where is the money coming from if we return to fan ownership.

 

[Niigata Jack]

Yeah I’m not disputing they were stitched up. But they were, we can blame Jenkins and the rest of them for that, but from where we are now, we’ve had investment come in, which isn’t lumbering the club with debt, but this still isn’t enough.

So I keep asking, what do we want? The owners to show zero ambition and sell out assets without replacing and use academy graduates, not all of which will be ready. So where is the money coming from if we return to fan ownership.

You seem to have all the questions so you can supply those answers, when you say what do we want, that includes you so you tell the rest of us.

The owners just can't continue to put millions in once, twice or three times a season, its not a bottomless pit, that'll just create an outcome as to where there won't be enough shares to dilute to warrant that, plus every time they do, do it its got to increase the value of the club, of which there'll be no buyers willing to pay their valuation.....

So where's does it end :?: :?: :?:

 

[DuffleCoat]

So if we are concerned for the need of more cash input we are classed as having half a brain. Is there a bottomless pit that this will happen every season? There is no magic solution but I haven't read anyone asking for immediate cost cuts.

The comment about "supporters" wanting us to fail really doesn't add to what should be a full open discussion on the situation. Many on here have been through the 2 times we did fail and don't want to see us going that route again.

Not really been an informative discussion on the pros and cons has it, let’s not rewrite history, it’s been tainted with an intentional tinge of dishonesty.

It’s been a finger pointing exercise; as it always is when it comes to our owners.

It’s gone from taking money out via employment (of other people?!), (and with their own money?!)….

(The above part is what I specifically referred to regarding half a brain)

… to being reckless because they are injecting money INTO the club.

Again, do we want investment or not?

Investment is exactly what you describe,
putting money into the club which it couldn’t afford on its own.

If we don’t want investment; then that is the compete opposite of what seemed like the consensus was in recent times and the main jibe directed to them.

In short, they can’t win. Let’s be honest.

 

[DuffleCoat]

Eventually putting in more cash stops when the cash runs out or the desire to do it disappears. And then the problems start. As 3swan has said we have seen that twice before.

The fact that they are prepared to prop up the losses is a good thing but we should also be doing all that we can to ensure that the need to do it is reducing at all times. And that comes from taking looks at all spends within the club and making some difficult decisions along the way.

Football is no different to any other business that way.

When there is a desire to not put any more money in, they don’t just leave it. They get us onto an even keel, just like they would any other business.

If you never want investment because you are scared that you won’t have any in the future - then you will never have any by that very nature.

So again it goes back to, do we want investment or not? Because all I’ve read in the past few seasons is that we do.

 

[DuffleCoat]

You're excellent evidence of the part of your post I've highlighted.

And yet you can’t tell me which part of my post you disagree with…

Because we both know I’m spot on.

Don’t spend = moan
Spend = moan

These owners can’t win, it’s literally a witch hunt that has been going on for years, propagated by trolls and trouble makers.

 

[DuffleCoat]

You seem to have all the questions so you can supply those answers, when you say what do we want, that includes you so you tell the rest of us.

The owners just can't continue to put millions in once, twice or three times a season, its not a bottomless pit, that'll just create an outcome as to where there won't be enough shares to dilute to warrant that, plus every time they do, do it its got to increase the value of the club, of which there'll be no buyers willing to pay their valuation.....

So where's does it end :?: :?: :?:

What scenario are we talking about here? A scenario when there is no desire to put any more into the club?

I don't think that time comes any time soon, but let’s say it does.

Expenditure on the squad ceases, high earning players are sold, support staff trimmed and the squad that is left is paid to a level the club can afford without investment.

These are short term costs not long term costs.

And guess what the result of that would be?

Calls for investment.

 

[Lampeterjack]

You seem to have all the questions so you can supply those answers, when you say what do we want, that includes you so you tell the rest of us.

The owners just can't continue to put millions in once, twice or three times a season, its not a bottomless pit, that'll just create an outcome as to where there won't be enough shares to dilute to warrant that, plus every time they do, do it its got to increase the value of the club, of which there'll be no buyers willing to pay their valuation.....

So where's does it end :?: :?: :?:

I haven’t got any answers to how what you want, works. As I know it will be disastrous.

 

[Niigata Jack]

I haven’t got any answers to how what you want, works. As I know it will be disastrous.

Yet you're asking me for answers that I clearly don't have cause I don't know the future, all I know is whatever they put in they'll want back at some point, they're not gonna simply write those monies of, some clubs are run by Fans all be it at a lesser level granted, think Luton re-emergence were once a Fan run club, Exeter still are I think, as I said earlier in the thread the Trust could have had a decent starting fund for future use if anything did go wrong, what have they got now though, feckall, whereas if they had, had the opportunity to discuss selling their shares they may well have had a decent nest egg.

Duffle coat is right in what he said that fans want investment to bring in better players, but that'll suit both parties if we get promoted, but if we don't is the issue, like I said they're gonna want to recover the money at some point, but without Premier League status any interested buyer isn't gonna pay what the owners want.

Personally, I think we are where we are when we consider the size of the club and where we are geographically, the Championship probably suits us, being a mid table club with flirtations with the playoffs occasionally is probably about right for us, its doubtful as to whether we could attract any tycoon to come and us be his play thing and I doubt many fans who have followed/supported the club before our Premier League and longer, or even a lot of our fans would want that anyway.

I was around in the days of Harry Greg's last term as manager then Harry Griffiths took over and so on, so I've seen plenty of high's and lows,

 

[Swanjaxs]

I haven’t got any answers to how what you want, works. As I know it will be disastrous.

Yanks patsy

 

[PSumbler]

When there is a desire to not put any more money in, they don’t just leave it. They get us onto an even keel, just like they would any other business.

If you never want investment because you are scared that you won’t have any in the future - then you will never have any by that very nature.

So again it goes back to, do we want investment or not? Because all I’ve read in the past few seasons is that we do.

Read again what I said because you certainly misinterpreted it

It’s fine putting money in but there has to come a time where the business doesn’t need that investment as it’s sustainable

 

[PSumbler]

Understood, but then the majority will be revelling in the toxic atmosphere in the ground when we sell our biggest assets, and don’t replace, be shouting about no ambition.

I can live with that

It’s our business model and one I would support

Buy quality players at good prices
Sell them at bigger prices
Invest back at good prices whilst keeping the club financially sound

So long as it’s a model that works then why not

 

[Lampeterjack]

I can live with that

It’s our business model and one I would support

Buy quality players at good prices
Sell them at bigger prices
Invest back at good prices whilst keeping the club financially sound

So long as it’s a model that works then why not

It’s a lot easier said than done, every club uo and down the country are looking for good, cheap players. We had a golden generation coming through, reeves etc utilising the European market which is harder to do nowadays due to Brexit (I think anyway).

We’ve made more sales than the majority of clubs in this league, downes, piroe, all the premier league legacy lads like Mcburnie, James, roberts, and we still need external investment to survive in this league.

I don’t see your way of thinking working unless we drop at least one league to be honest, but happy to agree to disagree.