Get vaccinated or stay home

[Cardiffjack]

Do you know him then ? I can name lots of other experts as well who don’t agree with the official narrative.

I know that he claims to be the chairman of the Royal College of physicians of Canada.
The RCPC have put out a statement saying that is a lie.

And you are happy to go into lockdown on the evidence of disgraced Neil Ferguson, who in 2002 predicted that 50,000 people would die from BSE when only 177 eventually died.

 

[Cardiffjack]

There are many experts who disagree with the government narrative. Here’s a good idea, if you want to shield- do so, and let the rest of society get on with normal life.

So you want nearly 20 million people to isolate just so you can avoid getting a little injection and carry on believing idiots like the 'expert' you've been referencing?
What are you talking about. If you want to take the vaccine, take it , no problem there.
I’ve never even taken a headache tablet , let alone thought it necessary to have an injection.
Since I was a teenager, I’ve always thought it’s important to look after my health and well-being and more than happy to let my immune system deal with anything that comes my way

 

[Cardiffjack]

So you want nearly 20 million people to isolate just so you can avoid getting a little injection and carry on believing idiots like the 'expert' you've been referencing?
What are you talking about. If you want to take the vaccine, take it , no problem there.
I’ve never even taken a headache tablet , let alone thought it necessary to have an injection.
Since I was a teenager, I’ve always thought it’s important to look after my health and well-being and more than happy to let my immune system deal with anything that comes it’s way.
What are your objections to the vaccine? Do they involve Bill Gates and microchips?

 

[controversial_jack]

Here’s his CV (bearing in mind he gets to decide what’s on there) on the website of Western Medical Assessments - ambulance-chasing legal services:

https://westernmedical.ca/employees/roger-g-hodkinson/

Read the homepage to see what they do:

https://westernmedical.ca/

He’s also the CEO of MedMalDoctors (his passion for ambulance chasing continues) where his CV is a little different than the one he’s using when bashing COVID claims:

https://medmaldoctors.ca/dr-roger-hodkinson/

Note that he lists himself as the CEO of Stirrat Laboratories.

They also posted this little nugget:

https://medmaldoctors.ca/2020/05/02/when-grieving-covid-19-families-seek-someone-to-blame/

The one thing I can’t find out is what Stirrat does, beyond being a medical testing lab. They don’t have a web presence, although they have plenty of ex-employees on LinkedIn. I wrongly conflated a previous search result that had a reference to covid on the same page as a reference to Stirrat Labs - but as testing facility in a province where private firms are handling covid testing, this probably isn’t a leap.

At the very least, he’s CEO of two different medical malpractice firms - raising his profile in this time can only benefit him, as can sowing distrust of actual medical professionals.

Copy and pasted from r/alberta

There are many experts who disagree with the government narrative. Here’s a good idea, if you want to shield- do so, and let the rest of society get on with normal life.

It's not possible to shield groups. We failed with old ppls homes, we have failed with schools and unis.

 

[K23]

i'll put my case more simply, as we will end up going around in circles, and start quoting data and more data, and stuff from the internet. And please bear in mind it is only my opinion. I do not see any problem with anyone choosing to have or not to have a vaccine, it is down to personal choice, everyone must be given that choice. now when it comes to being forced to do something that you don't want to do then I have a problem with it, and it has nothing to do with being irresponsible or responsible. Yes we do live in a democracy of sorts, although arguably that's another debate. I certainly do not want to live in a society whereby things are thrust upon you, with no choice whatsoever, if folk want that live in Korea or China, where that is the norm, that's fine.
So where will this end, no vaccine passport......No holidays abroad, cant pick your kids up from school, no going to the cinema, football matches, the list goes on and on.
On aside note did I say or have I ever said, that we should not abide by the current rules, and that we should blindly go about our business not giving a f**k about anyone else. Have I ever said I don't care or that I don't respect the virus and what it is doing to folk in their everyday lives. No, all I have said is that there should be a choice, and that restricting folk because they don't want a vaccine to my way of thinking is wrong.
Have a good day fella.

Two points I would make here

1. Totally agree about freedom of choice, BUT this vaccination approach will only work if a sufficient proportion of the population takes it. In that sense it is not like choosing not to wear a seatbelt.

2. I fear that taking the vaccine may end up being essentially compulsory. So for example, any job application may require confirmation of a vaccine having been taken or buying a plane ticket etc etc

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

 

[K23]

It’s not meaningless at all. We are destroying the economy and all the effects that will bring for a virus that has an average death age of 82.
Apparently only 350 people have died from the virus who are under 65 and have no underlying health problems out of a population of 67,000,000.

The statistics of people who have died are at the levels they are because of lockdown. What would those statistics be if there had never been any lockdown at all? The problem with comparing COVID with flu is that COVID-19 is much, much more infectious than flu and if we had gone for the herd immunity option how many would have died well before their time? Young, fit people should be able to get out there and keep the economy going provided they understand that they must isolate themselves from older family members and older people in general in my view.

I have sympathy with the view that young, fit people should be able to live as near to normal as possible. I am considered extremely vulnerable and had all the shielding letters from the government. I was very, very cautious at first particularly when a friend who was 47 and no underlying health conditions died within 72 hours of contracting Covid-19 in April. I have eaten out on a few occasions, always outdoors though. I’m not the sort of person to hide away despite my vulnerability but it is a personal risk assessment that I am comfortable with. I would not go for a meal or a drink indoors until I feel the risk is minimal.

I also know someone who had mild symptoms and was not hospitalised but six months later he is feeling worse than he did in May with no energy and no strength in his arms and hands which is a huge problem to him as he is a Gower farmer. We don’t know the long term effects yet and they could be worse than the initial infection for some.

I don’t think it’s too much to ask that people get vaccinated so that everyone can enjoy the football or the cinema or the theatre as soon as possible so that the economy can pick up and life can return to something approaching normal. Isn’t it a bit selfish to deny shielders the opportunity to do those things because the risk will be too high for them unless the vast majority get the jab. Many of them are old and they’ve already lost a year of a limited remaining life span.

Thank you for some rational, common sense J_B, on a thread that has frequently veered widely from the common sense zone.

 

[Cardiffjack]

Two points I would make here

1. Totally agree about freedom of choice, BUT this vaccination approach will only work if a sufficient proportion of the population takes it. In that sense it is not like choosing not to wear a seatbelt.

2. I fear that taking the vaccine may end up being essentially compulsory. So for example, any job application may require confirmation of a vaccine having been taken or buying a plane ticket etc etc

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

 

[Cardiffjack]

There are many experts who disagree with the government narrative. Here’s a good idea, if you want to shield- do so, and let the rest of society get on with normal life.

It's not possible to shield groups. We failed with old ppls homes, we have failed with schools and unis.

When did they try and shield schools and universities ?

 

[Jack2jack]

Two points I would make here

1. Totally agree about freedom of choice, BUT this vaccination approach will only work if a sufficient proportion of the population takes it. In that sense it is not like choosing not to wear a seatbelt.

2. I fear that taking the vaccine may end up being essentially compulsory. So for example, any job application may require confirmation of a vaccine having been taken or buying a plane ticket etc etc

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

Fair enoughski, would you also feel happy if everyone on the flight had built up an immunity to the virus.
My issue is freedom of choice, whether or not to have the vaccine, and how that affects ones freedom of movement or anyone's for that matter. I hope iam not treading a long and lonely path here, seems that way at the moment. Why should anyone be denied anything because they don't feel comfortable getting a vaccine, and there are all sorts of reason for not doing so.
I also wonder why over 2 million folk were allowed to wander back into the UK early doors, at arguably the height of this Pandemic,that's another debate.
Like I said the OP was regarding the possibility of vaccine passports, and travel movement without one. I just think we are on dangerous ground here.
The travel industry and countries who rely on travel has been decimated during this time, why would they bring further restrictions to further hurt themselves, it doesn't make sense, and I would hazard a guess that they U turn on it.

 

[Monty]

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

What about denying treatment to people who drink? That increases risk of cancer. Or those who don't have a perfect diet, or who don't exercise. It's their choice.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

I can’t see that anyone has suggested that people who choose not to be vaccinated and then catch the virus and require treatment are refused it?
The only relevant analogy is whether smokers are prevented exercising their own rights to do as they wish to themselves to protect the health of others. And they are. By law. Which is more than is being suggested for the vaccine.

 

[K23]

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

Not comparable. Anyone going into any NHS establishment to receive NHS treatment for a smoking related disease would not be endangering the health of other patients, doctors, nurses, porters and support staff let alone their lives. Someone with Covid-19 going onto a plane endangers the health and lives of every other passenger and every staff member on that flight as well as a few they've been in contact with both airside and landside. Not comparable at all, you'll have to do much better than that.

 

[Cardiffjack]

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

What about denying treatment to people who drink? That increases risk of cancer. Or those who don't have a perfect diet, or who don't exercise. It's their choice.

Absolutely, and don’t be surprised in the long term if this actually happens. The vaccine is the thin end of the wedge. After all it’s about people’s “choice”

If I’m forced to have a vaccine, then don’t see why people shouldn’t be forced to give up smoking, drinking, junk food. If they want NHS treatment.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

Fair enoughski, would you also feel happy if everyone on the flight had built up an immunity to the virus.
My issue is freedom of choice, whether or not to have the vaccine, and how that affects ones freedom of movement or anyone's for that matter. I hope iam not treading a long and lonely path here, seems that way at the moment. Why should anyone be denied anything because they don't feel comfortable getting a vaccine, and there are all sorts of reason for not doing so.
I also wonder why over 2 million folk were allowed to wander back into the UK early doors, at arguably the height of this Pandemic,that's another debate.
Like I said the OP was regarding the possibility of vaccine passports, and travel movement without one. I just think we are on dangerous ground here.
The travel industry and countries who rely on travel has been decimated during this time, why would they bring further restrictions to further hurt themselves, it doesn't make sense, and I would hazard a guess that they U turn on it.

Restrictions will work both ways. For any thar refuse to fly with, for example, Qantas because of their stance, there will be others that choose them specifically.
Plus they’ll all do the same thing. There are already vaccine passports in the case of Yellow Fever and no one has ever mentioned them so it’s hardly groundbreaking. You have to pay for those as well - about £70.

 

[Cardiffjack]

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

Not comparable. Anyone going into any NHS establishment to receive NHS treatment for a smoking related disease would not be endangering the health of other patients, doctors, nurses, porters and support staff let alone their lives. Someone with Covid-19 going onto a plane endangers the health and lives of every other passenger and every staff member on that flight as well as a few they've been in contact with both airside and landside. Not comparable at all, you'll have to do much better than that.

What about seasonal flu ? Should you have yearly injection before you can fly ?

And it doesn’t endanger everyone’s lives , how can it when there is a 99.7 % survival rate and most people who get it, don’t even know they have had it.