Get vaccinated or stay home

[Londonlisa2001]

Not comparable. Anyone going into any NHS establishment to receive NHS treatment for a smoking related disease would not be endangering the health of other patients, doctors, nurses, porters and support staff let alone their lives. Someone with Covid-19 going onto a plane endangers the health and lives of every other passenger and every staff member on that flight as well as a few they've been in contact with both airside and landside. Not comparable at all, you'll have to do much better than that.

What about seasonal flu ? Should you have yearly injection before you can fly ?

And it doesn’t endanger everyone’s lives , how can it when there is a 99.7 % survival rate and most people who get it, don’t even know they have had it.

Seasonal flu isn’t anywhere near as dangerous to the population. Not least because there aren’t people who get it and don’t know they have it.
The deaths this year have been higher than flu ever is despite the country being locked down for 9 or 10 months.

 

[Monty]

What about denying treatment to people who drink? That increases risk of cancer. Or those who don't have a perfect diet, or who don't exercise. It's their choice.

Absolutely, and don’t be surprised in the long term if this actually happens. The vaccine is the thin end of the wedge. After all it’s about people’s “choice”

If I’m forced to have a vaccine, then don’t see why people shouldn’t be forced to give up smoking, drinking, junk food. If they want NHS treatment.

:lol:

 

[K23]

I would feel much happier and more willing to buy a flight ticket knowing that every single person on that flight has been vaccinated and has had to prove it in order to be accepted onto the flight. That is not making it mandatory for the whole population, just for those who want to fly in safety for themselves and for others and the airlines are 100% within their rights to impose whatever conditions they choose on their customers and I hope they do exactly that so we can all fly off to wherever we want, worry free. If someone would prefer not to have a vaccination in favour of going on a flight, that is their choice.

Fair enoughski, would you also feel happy if everyone on the flight had built up an immunity to the virus.
My issue is freedom of choice, whether or not to have the vaccine, and how that affects ones freedom of movement or anyone's for that matter. I hope iam not treading a long and lonely path here, seems that way at the moment. Why should anyone be denied anything because they don't feel comfortable getting a vaccine, and there are all sorts of reason for not doing so.
I also wonder why over 2 million folk were allowed to wander back into the UK early doors, at arguably the height of this Pandemic,that's another debate.
Like I said the OP was regarding the possibility of vaccine passports, and travel movement without one. I just think we are on dangerous ground here.
The travel industry and countries who rely on travel has been decimated during this time, why would they bring further restrictions to further hurt themselves, it doesn't make sense, and I would hazard a guess that they U turn on it.

Yes, I would be happy going on a flight if everyone had built up an immunity to the virus, provided they were able to verify it. What's the difference? You either verify you've had a vaccination or you verify you have immunity then you're ok to fly?

" Why should anyone be denied anything because they don't feel comfortable getting a vaccine?" Because, whatever their reasons, they would always have the potential to infect others, it's really no more complicated than that.

If the vaccine take up in this country is, let's just say, 70%, who do you think the airlines will be trying to attract onto their planes? The 70% they know are safe or the 30% they know would present some unknown degree of risk?

 

[Cardiffjack]

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

I can’t see that anyone has suggested that people who choose not to be vaccinated and then catch the virus and require treatment are refused it?
The only relevant analogy is whether smokers are prevented exercising their own rights to do as they wish to themselves to protect the health of others. And they are. By law. Which is more than is being suggested for the vaccine.

The NHS is full of people clogging up valuable resources, who smoke, drink, take drugs, eat junk food, take a lack of exercise etc.

That means people who don’t indulge in those things possibly having to join the waiting list and therefore endangering their health/lives, all because the nhs is clogged up with smokers etc.

 

[Cardiffjack]

Absolutely, and don’t be surprised in the long term if this actually happens. The vaccine is the thin end of the wedge. After all it’s about people’s “choice”

If I’m forced to have a vaccine, then don’t see why people shouldn’t be forced to give up smoking, drinking, junk food. If they want NHS treatment.

:lol:

Do you smoke or drink or eat crap ?

 

[Cardiffjack]

Fair enoughski, would you also feel happy if everyone on the flight had built up an immunity to the virus.
My issue is freedom of choice, whether or not to have the vaccine, and how that affects ones freedom of movement or anyone's for that matter. I hope iam not treading a long and lonely path here, seems that way at the moment. Why should anyone be denied anything because they don't feel comfortable getting a vaccine, and there are all sorts of reason for not doing so.
I also wonder why over 2 million folk were allowed to wander back into the UK early doors, at arguably the height of this Pandemic,that's another debate.
Like I said the OP was regarding the possibility of vaccine passports, and travel movement without one. I just think we are on dangerous ground here.
The travel industry and countries who rely on travel has been decimated during this time, why would they bring further restrictions to further hurt themselves, it doesn't make sense, and I would hazard a guess that they U turn on it.

Yes, I would be happy going on a flight if everyone had built up an immunity to the virus, provided they were able to verify it. What's the difference? You either verify you've had a vaccination or you verify you have immunity then you're ok to fly?

" Why should anyone be denied anything because they don't feel comfortable getting a vaccine?" Because, whatever their reasons, they would always have the potential to infect others, it's really no more complicated than that.

If the vaccine take up in this country is, let's just say, 70%, who do you think the airlines will be trying to attract onto their planes? The 70% they know are safe or the 30% they know would present some unknown degree of risk?

The airlines would also lose out by insisting on being vaccinated.

 

[Cardiffjack]

What about seasonal flu ? Should you have yearly injection before you can fly ?

And it doesn’t endanger everyone’s lives , how can it when there is a 99.7 % survival rate and most people who get it, don’t even know they have had it.

Seasonal flu isn’t anywhere near as dangerous to the population. Not least because there aren’t people who get it and don’t know they have it.
The deaths this year have been higher than flu ever is despite the country being locked down for 9 or 10 months.

Are the deaths stats you talk about the ones where people who have recovered from the virus and then died within 28 days from something unrelated to coronavirus ?

 

[Cardiffjack]

Maybe we could extend the “choices” to stopping people who smoking from getting NHS treatment for disease caused by smoking, so people can choose between smoking or getting nhs treatment if needed. It will be their choice.

I can’t see that anyone has suggested that people who choose not to be vaccinated and then catch the virus and require treatment are refused it?
The only relevant analogy is whether smokers are prevented exercising their own rights to do as they wish to themselves to protect the health of others. And they are. By law. Which is more than is being suggested for the vaccine.

Also in regards to smoking. You can still smoke in your own home. You can still smoke in your own car.
So the law doesn’t protect completely against smoking.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

Seasonal flu isn’t anywhere near as dangerous to the population. Not least because there aren’t people who get it and don’t know they have it.
The deaths this year have been higher than flu ever is despite the country being locked down for 9 or 10 months.

Are the deaths stats you talk about the ones where people who have recovered from the virus and then died within 28 days from something unrelated to coronavirus ?

No. I’m simply talking excess deaths. The only real measure.

 

[Monty]

:lol:

Do you smoke or drink or eat crap ?

No i'm a teetotal vegan

 

[Londonlisa2001]

I can’t see that anyone has suggested that people who choose not to be vaccinated and then catch the virus and require treatment are refused it?
The only relevant analogy is whether smokers are prevented exercising their own rights to do as they wish to themselves to protect the health of others. And they are. By law. Which is more than is being suggested for the vaccine.

Also in regards to smoking. You can still smoke in your own home. You can still smoke in your own car.
So the law doesn’t protect completely against smoking.

Yep. And you can still sit in your home or car without a vaccine. No one is suggesting it is mandatory. Just that there will be things you can’t do, Same as for smoking.

 

[Cardiffjack]

Are the deaths stats you talk about the ones where people who have recovered from the virus and then died within 28 days from something unrelated to coronavirus ?

No. I’m simply talking excess deaths. The only real measure.

So deaths that may have been a result of the unintended consequences of the lockdown you mean ? Like undiagnosed cancers, heart disease etc.

 

[Londonlisa2001]

No. I’m simply talking excess deaths. The only real measure.

So deaths that may have been a result of the unintended consequences of the lockdown you mean ? Like undiagnosed cancers, heart disease etc.

I’ve argued about the effects of lockdown all year saying it wasn’t a zero sum game.

All the more reason to get everything back to normal by taking a vaccine.

 

[Cardiffjack]

Also in regards to smoking. You can still smoke in your own home. You can still smoke in your own car.
So the law doesn’t protect completely against smoking.

Yep. And you can still sit in your home or car without a vaccine. No one is suggesting it is mandatory. Just that there will be things you can’t do, Same as for smoking.

The smoking laws were introduced by the government not unilaterally by companies (apart from where smoking is dangerous)

 

[Cardiffjack]

Do you smoke or drink or eat crap ?

No i'm a teetotal vegan

Veganism is extremely bad for you