Grimes

[Smurph]

The problem with 4-4-2 is that a lot of teams at the moment either play 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 so your 2 in midfield would always be outnumbered.

Of course, with proper coaching this could be avoided (getting your spare CB to step up into midfield or one of your strikers to drop back) but then you're effectively back in the same situation, either playing a 3-5-2 or a 4-5-1.

Our formation at the moment tends to be a 3-3-3-1 with Grimes dropping in as a third CB, both full backs pushed on, then the two wingers and number 10 playing behind the single striker. The main problem we have is the 6 more defensive players keep the ball amongst themselves and are far too slow to get it to the 4 attacking players

When out of possession one of your strikers drops back. The best player at doing this and winning the ball back was Ian Rush.

If we play with pace and get the ball out wide as quickly as possible the best form of defence is attack.

 

[T8AD365]

When out of possession one of your strikers drops back. The best player at doing this and winning the ball back was Ian Rush.

If we play with pace and get the ball out wide as quickly as possible the best form of defence is attack.

Yes but it's just semantics about the shape the players are in on the team sheet.

There's no difference between starting in a 4-4-2 and having a striker drop back (making it a 4-5-1) and starting in a 4-5-1 and having a midfielder push forward to join the striker (making it a 4-4-2).

That "if" is the problem though, we don't play with pace or get the ball wide as quickly as possible. We've signed some quick players in the last couple of windows but we still move the ball ridiculously slowly and don't allow those players to use their pace to cause the opposition problems

 

[Smurph]

Yes but it's just semantics about the shape the players are in on the team sheet.

There's no difference between starting in a 4-4-2 and having a striker drop back (making it a 4-5-1) and starting in a 4-5-1 and having a midfielder push forward to join the striker (making it a 4-4-2).

That "if" is the problem though, we don't play with pace or get the ball wide as quickly as possible. We've signed some quick players in the last couple of windows but we still move the ball ridiculously slowly and don't allow those players to use their pace to cause the opposition problems

Pointless having pace if you don't utilise it.

Ronald must be pulling his hair out.

 

[T8AD365]

Pointless having pace if you don't utilise it.

Ronald must be pulling his hair out.

Yep, as must all our attacking players who only get to touch the ball a few times every game

 

[Tomsyard]

The problem with 4-4-2 is that a lot of teams at the moment either play 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 so your 2 in midfield would always be outnumbered.

Of course, with proper coaching this could be avoided (getting your spare CB to step up into midfield or one of your strikers to drop back) but then you're effectively back in the same situation, either playing a 3-5-2 or a 4-5-1.

Our formation at the moment tends to be a 3-3-3-1 with Grimes dropping in as a third CB, both full backs pushed on, then the two wingers and number 10 playing behind the single striker. The main problem we have is the 6 more defensive players keep the ball amongst themselves and are far too slow to get it to the 4 attacking players

There’s no such thing as 4-4-2. When was the last time anyone saw 2 forwards stood up top waiting for the team to win back possession and knock it up to them. The only time you’ll see it is at a game on a Sunday morning. Tactics are far more fluid and change when in or out of possession and it’s how it’s done is a clue to how the manager sets up and coaches the team. Could be six defending when being attacked and 3-5-2 and 3-4-3 or 3-3-4 when the ball is in or near the opposition box. The success of any formation is the players understanding of their role in it and how it’s worked on during the week.

Every team more or less play the same; from the keeper the fullbacks push up the line, central defenders split, defensive midfielder drops deep to receive the ball and more advanced midfielders create angles to receive the next pass in the middle third to move into final third. Sounds easy but the problem is when teams press high especially when they know that LW wants MG to receive the ball that things can go wrong and ends with the keeper often having to kick it out wide sometimes successfully or turning it into a 50 50 for Ronald to challenge for it in the air which even if he wins it rarely comes to anything. To me it’s playing by numbers which most teams now play or try and play and it’s very dependent on the technical ability of the players. I blame Pep!!

 

[T8AD365]

There’s no such thing as 4-4-2. When was the last time anyone saw 2 forwards stood up top waiting for the team to win back possession and knock it up to them. The only time you’ll see it is at a game on a Sunday morning. Tactics are far more fluid and change when in or out of possession and it’s how it’s done is a clue to how the manager sets up and coaches the team. Could be six defending when being attacked and 3-5-2 and 3-4-3 or 3-3-4 when the ball is in or near the opposition box. The success of any formation is the players understanding of their role in it and how it’s worked on during the week.

Every team more or less play the same; from the keeper the fullbacks push up the line, central defenders split, defensive midfielder drops deep to receive the ball and more advanced midfielders create angles to receive the next pass in the middle third to move into final third. Sounds easy but the problem is when teams press high especially when they know that LW wants MG to receive the ball that things can go wrong and ends with the keeper often having to kick it out wide sometimes successfully or turning it into a 50 50 for Ronald to challenge for it in the air which even if he wins it rarely comes to anything. To me it’s playing by numbers which most teams now play or try and play and it’s very dependent on the technical ability of the players. I blame Pep!!

Agreed, that's exactly what I've said

 

[Smurph]

There’s no such thing as 4-4-2. When was the last time anyone saw 2 forwards stood up top waiting for the team to win back possession and knock it up to them. The only time you’ll see it is at a game on a Sunday morning. Tactics are far more fluid and change when in or out of possession and it’s how it’s done is a clue to how the manager sets up and coaches the team. Could be six defending when being attacked and 3-5-2 and 3-4-3 or 3-3-4 when the ball is in or near the opposition box. The success of any formation is the players understanding of their role in it and how it’s worked on during the week.

Every team more or less play the same; from the keeper the fullbacks push up the line, central defenders split, defensive midfielder drops deep to receive the ball and more advanced midfielders create angles to receive the next pass in the middle third to move into final third. Sounds easy but the problem is when teams press high especially when they know that LW wants MG to receive the ball that things can go wrong and ends with the keeper often having to kick it out wide sometimes successfully or turning it into a 50 50 for Ronald to challenge for it in the air which even if he wins it rarely comes to anything. To me it’s playing by numbers which most teams now play or try and play and it’s very dependent on the technical ability of the players. I blame Pep!!

Based on that theory then there is no such thing as any formation.

When have you ever seen two static centre forwards when playing 4-4-2 in a professional context?

Some of the greatest and most successful teams have played with two up top and they certainly didn't stand with their hands on their hips waiting for the ball.

 

[Tomsyard]

Agreed, that's exactly what I've said

You’re right, I didn’t mean to reply to you, poor coaching at this end!!

 

[bytholwyn]

Although we still build from the back (painfully slowly too often) under Williams we also look to get the ball out wide to the full backs and wingers at the earliest opportunity. This is why Grimes drops between the centre backs, as his distribution is pinpoint accurate. Whilst this works fine when the pass recipient is in space, far too often we attempt these passes to already marked players. Vigouroux in particular is guilty of this. If you watch 2 minutes in to the full match coverage of the West Brom game you will see he aimed a 60 yard diagonal to Ronald, who had a player in front and behind. Unsurprisingly he lost the ball and the ensuing counterattack should have resulted in a goal for Maja, who headed straight at Vigouroux. This wasn't a one off either, Vigouroux repeated the action a couple of minutes later. This isn't a clever tactic as it just hands possession back to the opposition.

We really need to get back to the Swansea Way, of playing through the thirds with sharp short passing triangles. Franco and Allen have the necessary skills, as does Grimes, but the team need to be coached to play that way.

 

[Jackandcoke]

Although we still build from the back (painfully slowly too often) under Williams we also look to get the ball out wide to the full backs and wingers at the earliest opportunity. This is why Grimes drops between the centre backs, as his distribution is pinpoint accurate. Whilst this works fine when the pass recipient is in space, far too often we attempt these passes to already marked players. Vigouroux in particular is guilty of this. If you watch 2 minutes in to the full match coverage of the West Brom game you will see he aimed a 60 yard diagonal to Ronald, who had a player in front and behind. Unsurprisingly he lost the ball and the ensuing counterattack should have resulted in a goal for Maja, who headed straight at Vigouroux. This wasn't a one off either, Vigouroux repeated the action a couple of minutes later. This isn't a clever tactic as it just hands possession back to the opposition.

We really need to get back to the Swansea Way, of playing through the thirds with sharp short passing triangles. Franco and Allen have the necessary skills, as does Grimes, but the team need to be coached to play that way.

Spot on bytholwyn, in loads of ways.

We need a Swanseway coach, someone inculcated in our ways from a young age. Someone who knows it, and not from a textbook.

Little Joey is the perfect fit, and with the passion, the energy, the desire to make it happen. Along with his Chief Executive Matty architecting and executing the game plan.

Ditch Williams (he is after all a beta version Martin Mini-Me).

Excellent segue to get this thread back on topic, Matty (and Joey) our last remaining thread to The Swanseway.

 

[TerryPHELAN]

The Swansea way is now a long distant memory. The erosion was started by Monk, Potter tried to revive it, but we now need to accept it doesn’t exist anymore.

 

[Smurph]

The Swansea way is now a long distant memory. The erosion was started by Monk, Potter tried to revive it, but we now need to accept it doesn’t exist anymore.

The ginger Mourinho has a lot to answer for. I bet Huwbert rues the day he listened to him.

Often wonder what if Chico had caught him with the brick he was chasing him with.

 

[Dr. Winston]

The ginger Mourinho has a lot to answer for. I bet Huwbert rues the day he listened to him.

Often wonder what if Chico had caught him with the brick he was chasing him with.

The Ginger Mourinho currently sitting on a 12% win ratio with Cambridge Utd.

For all the criticism, sometimes justified, aimed at current ownership, the roots of our current situation well predate their involvement. How in the name of Holy Hell Jenkins ever thought that giving Monk the reins was a good idea will probably never be known.

 

[Swanjaxs]

The Ginger Mourinho currently sitting on a 12% win ratio with Cambridge Utd.

For all the criticism, sometimes justified, aimed at current ownership, the roots of our current situation well predate their involvement. How in the name of Holy Hell Jenkins ever thought that giving Monk the reins was a good idea will probably never be known.

He was cheap, and a yes man would probably be my guess as to the appointing of Monk, a perfect combo for bignose...

 

[Smurph]

The Ginger Mourinho currently sitting on a 12% win ratio with Cambridge Utd.

For all the criticism, sometimes justified, aimed at current ownership, the roots of our current situation well predate their involvement. How in the name of Holy Hell Jenkins ever thought that giving Monk the reins was a good idea will probably never be known.

Listening to Monk was his first mistake. It went drastically downhill after that.