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Next PM?

exiledclaseboy said:
Londonlisa2001 said:
Heath? Thatcher would be better than Truss. Dreadful though she was she did actually have a brain and was, bizarrely, not as right wing as Truss.

Thatcher was barely right wing at all by modern standards.

Portillo told a story about when he was in charge of energy saying to her he was worried about gas and her thinking he meant his own gas bill as she was genuinely aware that such things were an issue in a way that this lot wouldn’t dream of. Her and Major of course were actually from recognisably ordinary backgrounds.
 
Londonlisa2001 said:
exiledclaseboy said:
Thatcher was barely right wing at all by modern standards.

Portillo told a story about when he was in charge of energy saying to her he was worried about gas and her thinking he meant his own gas bill as she was genuinely aware that such things were an issue in a way that this lot wouldn’t dream of. Her and Major of course were actually from recognisably ordinary backgrounds.

I suppose it depends on your definition of ordinary but Thatcher was the daughter of a fairly well heeled shop owner as I remember it. Not wealthy, certainly not gentrified in any way but the very definition of comfortable middle class. Major’s working class origins are similarly mostly mythical but again, they weren’t your typical landed gentry Tories so I’m probably arguing semantics. And I’m sure neither of us are about to get unnecessarily dewy eyed about either of them. For me they were both awful and destructive in different ways. I’ve always thought Major was a decent man leading a party riven with complacency and corruption much like it is now. I have a far less kind view of Thatcher as a person and her political legacy, the consequences of which are still being keenly felt today.

But the Tory party was different then. Then, love it or hate it (and I’ve been consistently behind the latter emotion) it was still at least a political party that stood for something and had some people with compassion. Now it’s just a political apparatus and a voter base which has been hijacked by extremists in much the same way Trump did with the GOP in the States.
 
Ebo said:
Londonlisa2001 said:
I’m beginning to think Truss as PM will be genuinely hilarious.

She will be so bad it could spell the end of them for a generation. And if we can get a coalition to bring in PR, it could be the end of them for ever in their current manifestation, as I refuse to believe there will ever be a majority for extreme right wing politics. Or extreme left for that matter.

She may even screw up so badly we will need to rejoin the single market and customs Union.

The current labour mob are dead against PR.

It will go to a referendum and as we know that can go in any direction depending on who wants it to happen.

Labour will be giving out referendums left and right should they be coerced into a coalition.
 
Ebo said:
WxmJax said:
Conservative members to decide who'll be the next PM.

Put your house on Liz Truss.

It's as clear as black and white.

She has the backing of the ERG and Murdoch likes her too, She will last months i reckon and we will be back to square one, if she hasn't started WW3 by then.


"If she hasn't started WW3 by then" She's a dangerous fuker and dull enough to lead into War, just as well leave Bonking Boris there as have either of these two options, they've been nominated because they'll continue with BAU and little if anything will change, just have the continuing sound bites.

Guy on my training course and the Tutor are both lovers of Maggie, the fellow trainee ex army is more vercivious in his arguments in supporting her though, its galling to say the least.Tutor even lives in the Rhondda, you couldn't make it up ffs :x
 
exiledclaseboy said:
Londonlisa2001 said:
Portillo told a story about when he was in charge of energy saying to her he was worried about gas and her thinking he meant his own gas bill as she was genuinely aware that such things were an issue in a way that this lot wouldn’t dream of. Her and Major of course were actually from recognisably ordinary backgrounds.

I suppose it depends on your definition of ordinary but Thatcher was the daughter of a fairly well heeled shop owner as I remember it. Not wealthy, certainly not gentrified in any way but the very definition of comfortable middle class. Major’s working class origins are similarly mostly mythical but again, they weren’t your typical landed gentry Tories so I’m probably arguing semantics. And I’m sure neither of us are about to get unnecessarily dewy eyed about either of them. For me they were both awful and destructive in different ways. I’ve always thought Major was a decent man leading a party riven with complacency and corruption much like it is now. I have a far less kind view of Thatcher as a person and her political legacy, the consequences of which are still being keenly felt today.

But the Tory party was different then. Then, love it or hate it (and I’ve been consistently behind the latter emotion) it was still at least a political party that stood for something and had some people with compassion. Now it’s just a political apparatus and a voter base which has been hijacked by extremists in much the same way Trump did with the GOP in the States.

Thatcher was the start of all that is wrong with modern Britain. Squandered North Sea oil revenues on a monetarist experiment. Horrible woman.
 
exiledclaseboy said:
Londonlisa2001 said:
Portillo told a story about when he was in charge of energy saying to her he was worried about gas and her thinking he meant his own gas bill as she was genuinely aware that such things were an issue in a way that this lot wouldn’t dream of. Her and Major of course were actually from recognisably ordinary backgrounds.

I suppose it depends on your definition of ordinary but Thatcher was the daughter of a fairly well heeled shop owner as I remember it. Not wealthy, certainly not gentrified in any way but the very definition of comfortable middle class. Major’s working class origins are similarly mostly mythical but again, they weren’t your typical landed gentry Tories so I’m probably arguing semantics. And I’m sure neither of us are about to get unnecessarily dewy eyed about either of them. For me they were both awful and destructive in different ways. I’ve always thought Major was a decent man leading a party riven with complacency and corruption much like it is now. I have a far less kind view of Thatcher as a person and her political legacy, the consequences of which are still being keenly felt today.

But the Tory party was different then. Then, love it or hate it (and I’ve been consistently behind the latter emotion) it was still at least a political party that stood for something and had some people with compassion. Now it’s just a political apparatus and a voter base which has been hijacked by extremists in much the same way Trump did with the GOP in the States.

I don’t think she was poor, but her Dad owning a shop and her going to her local grammar school is recognisably ordinary as compared to the whole bunch of Old Etonians that have continued to dominate since.

I think the difficulty with Thatcher’s legacy was her becoming increasingly radical as time went on. At the start she wasn’t really. Her biggest failing for me was the introduction or at least encouragement of the priority of self over the whole. It’s the legacy of that which is being felt so strongly now. The idea that if you can do well for yourself you just carry on and carry on with no restraint. Even if that hurts the whole. Some aspects of that worked for some. There was undoubtedly greater social mobility in the 80s / 90s than there was either before or since. Whether it was through education or encouraging property ownership.
What we see now though is the natural conclusion of that. Utter selfishness where the extremely wealthy want more and more and are not prepared to pay enough in taxation to maintain society as a whole. There is no restraint at all on the gap between wealthy and poor getting bigger and bigger.
At some point it will stop. As the wealthy eventually realise they don’t want to live in a glorified goldfish bowl. Where even they won’t be able to get an operation when they want or schooling they want as there is simply no one to provide it. Or when a pandemic means that they realise they have to rely on the State and support is no longer there as there is no money left.
One thing Covid showed is that the purely capitalist economy can’t work. As there are occasions when the State has to step in to prevent everyone dying. It’s the same in war of course.
You’d imagine people may have thought twice after what’s happened but so far some have just continued lurching to the right. It will stop though. Because I think (hope) that more people are naturally good than not. And those that are have worked out how to tactically vote…
 
Bet Dominic Cummings is rubbing his hands as his new book is on the printing press , when shall i release it to get maximum publicity .

Thanks Boris for not backing me when I honestly , took a drive to the North test my eyes in lockdown .

Bring back the original Spitting Image , they would have a field day , alas , today the show would not be classed as appropriate entertainment for prime time viewing , I loved it .
 
Londonlisa2001 said:
Professor said:
It could be the price of coalition if the Lib Dems take seats in the SE and SW. Longer term it would give us moderation of Scandinavia, Netherlands and Germany.

I agree with Lisa, a 'true socialist' agenda in unsellable in large swathes of England, but another term of these tinpot fascists will finish the country.

Rumour has it it will be the price. And that will be fantastic. The type of modern social democracy seen in Scandinavia et al would be perfect.

I suspect we would pay more tax Lisa, but at least we would have working public services and fewer people needing to use food banks and better opportunity for all. Not the few.
 
Londonlisa2001 said:
exiledclaseboy said:
I suppose it depends on your definition of ordinary but Thatcher was the daughter of a fairly well heeled shop owner as I remember it. Not wealthy, certainly not gentrified in any way but the very definition of comfortable middle class. Major’s working class origins are similarly mostly mythical but again, they weren’t your typical landed gentry Tories so I’m probably arguing semantics. And I’m sure neither of us are about to get unnecessarily dewy eyed about either of them. For me they were both awful and destructive in different ways. I’ve always thought Major was a decent man leading a party riven with complacency and corruption much like it is now. I have a far less kind view of Thatcher as a person and her political legacy, the consequences of which are still being keenly felt today.

But the Tory party was different then. Then, love it or hate it (and I’ve been consistently behind the latter emotion) it was still at least a political party that stood for something and had some people with compassion. Now it’s just a political apparatus and a voter base which has been hijacked by extremists in much the same way Trump did with the GOP in the States.

I don’t think she was poor, but her Dad owning a shop and her going to her local grammar school is recognisably ordinary as compared to the whole bunch of Old Etonians that have continued to dominate since.

I think the difficulty with Thatcher’s legacy was her becoming increasingly radical as time went on. At the start she wasn’t really. Her biggest failing for me was the introduction or at least encouragement of the priority of self over the whole. It’s the legacy of that which is being felt so strongly now. The idea that if you can do well for yourself you just carry on and carry on with no restraint. Even if that hurts the whole. Some aspects of that worked for some. There was undoubtedly greater social mobility in the 80s / 90s than there was either before or since. Whether it was through education or encouraging property ownership.
What we see now though is the natural conclusion of that. Utter selfishness where the extremely wealthy want more and more and are not prepared to pay enough in taxation to maintain society as a whole. There is no restraint at all on the gap between wealthy and poor getting bigger and bigger.
At some point it will stop. As the wealthy eventually realise they don’t want to live in a glorified goldfish bowl. Where even they won’t be able to get an operation when they want or schooling they want as there is simply no one to provide it. Or when a pandemic means that they realise they have to rely on the State and support is no longer there as there is no money left.
One thing Covid showed is that the purely capitalist economy can’t work. As there are occasions when the State has to step in to prevent everyone dying. It’s the same in war of course.
You’d imagine people may have thought twice after what’s happened but so far some have just continued lurching to the right. It will stop though. Because I think (hope) that more people are naturally good than not. And those that are have worked out how to tactically vote…

Try posting that on Planet Gammon.
 
Itchysphincter said:
Londonlisa2001 said:
I don’t think she was poor, but her Dad owning a shop and her going to her local grammar school is recognisably ordinary as compared to the whole bunch of Old Etonians that have continued to dominate since.

I think the difficulty with Thatcher’s legacy was her becoming increasingly radical as time went on. At the start she wasn’t really. Her biggest failing for me was the introduction or at least encouragement of the priority of self over the whole. It’s the legacy of that which is being felt so strongly now. The idea that if you can do well for yourself you just carry on and carry on with no restraint. Even if that hurts the whole. Some aspects of that worked for some. There was undoubtedly greater social mobility in the 80s / 90s than there was either before or since. Whether it was through education or encouraging property ownership.
What we see now though is the natural conclusion of that. Utter selfishness where the extremely wealthy want more and more and are not prepared to pay enough in taxation to maintain society as a whole. There is no restraint at all on the gap between wealthy and poor getting bigger and bigger.
At some point it will stop. As the wealthy eventually realise they don’t want to live in a glorified goldfish bowl. Where even they won’t be able to get an operation when they want or schooling they want as there is simply no one to provide it. Or when a pandemic means that they realise they have to rely on the State and support is no longer there as there is no money left.
One thing Covid showed is that the purely capitalist economy can’t work. As there are occasions when the State has to step in to prevent everyone dying. It’s the same in war of course.
You’d imagine people may have thought twice after what’s happened but so far some have just continued lurching to the right. It will stop though. Because I think (hope) that more people are naturally good than not. And those that are have worked out how to tactically vote…

Try posting that on Planet Gammon.

Plenty of exemplars to support Lisa’s point there.
 
Not sure what's more disturbing, Thatcher being painted in a relatively good light, or the comments being entirely valid. Goes to show how extreme things have become.

I hope Labour don't screw this up, but sadly I expect their loyalty to party above all else will mean they will. Still scarred by Kinnock's flirtation with PR in '92 too.

I think our one hope is a hung parliament and a reliance on the Libs and Greens. SNP will be bought with a second ref that, morally, there's no real argument against anyway.

Really difficult to predict as the electoral map is completely different to what it was, and now we have tactical voting in the mix. We can't really rely on historic precedent in a lot of the usual battleground areas.
 
Robbie said:
Bet Dominic Cummings is rubbing his hands as his new book is on the printing press , when shall i release it to get maximum publicity .

Thanks Boris for not backing me when I honestly , took a drive to the North test my eyes in lockdown .

Bring back the original Spitting Image , they would have a field day , alas , today the show would not be classed as appropriate entertainment for prime time viewing , I loved it .

Spitting Image is back mate. Started in 2020 and the 2nd series finished in December last year. Not sure if they're making more.
 

Norwich City v Swansea City

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