Simon Pegg lays into Rishi

[Neath_Jack]

It’s important kids have a good education because it’s the key to getting ahead in life, but this business about making kids study maths until their 18 is nonsense. I did my Maths O level back in the 80’s and apart from helping my kids, I’ve not used most a good 90% of it since.
Lots of kids hate maths and having to study maths until their 18 will put them off saying in school and doing other subjects, my take on things is as long as children can get their Maths GCSE for most that will be enough.

There’s a big shortage of teachers already and Maths and science teachers are at a premium. How on earth are we going to recruit more of them to teach even more kids up to the age of 18. Pie in the sky!

They're :mrgreen:

 

[Neath_Jack]

Its an interesting point you make there, as I for one only saw the point of Trig etc, once it was applied to practical situations like working out curves, arc lengths etc. Then and only then did I see a point to it. Mind you computers have taken all the hard work out of it, but useful to know first principles.

In your line of work, all the new engineers do is walk around holding their prism, for the total station to do all the work. Drive me mad some of them. Get the tape and spray out ffs.

I've no problem with teaching kids who want to do more maths for their career choice or because they have a talent for it, but let those of us that are not so academic get on with more useful subjects. Too much emphasis is put on academic qualifications.

 

[Jack2jack]

In your line of work, all the new engineers do is walk around holding their prism, for the total station to do all the work. Drive me mad some of them. Get the tape and spray out ffs.

I've no problem with teaching kids who want to do more maths for their career choice or because they have a talent for it, but let those of us that are not so academic get on with more useful subjects. Too much emphasis is put on academic qualifications.

Fortunately or unfortunately it's all done by computers these days, all our survey work and setting out is done by others. Bit more desk bound these days, just knocking out designs, to be fair it's just not as fun as it used to be,as we used to do a bit of everything. Couldnt agree more, I think we are a bit old school with regards to academia. Gone are the days of working your way up from the bottom up. Trouble is you need a degree now to sharpen a pencil.Not saying it's right or wrong, just different.

 

[westside]

Maybe they should teach the kids politics then this bunch of lying, self serving, corrupt, incompetent chancers wouldn't be the government and we could still be in the EU.

 

[MajorR]

They're :mrgreen:

You’re not wrong, I need check my posts before submitting!

 

[Neath_Jack]

You’re not wrong, I need check my posts before submitting!

Only pulling your leg Maj, you're not being marked :ugeek:

 

[JustJack]

As has been said

Teaching math in school isn't about replicating pythagoras theorem in the workplace.

It's about being given a problem and understanding a process to obtain the solution, a skill that every employee needs.

The explanation of this to school pupils is butchered, none the less.

 

[Neath_Jack]

As has been said

Teaching math in school isn't about replicating pythagoras theorem in the workplace.

It's about being given a problem and understanding a process to obtain the solution, a skill that every employee needs.

The explanation of this to school pupils is butchered, none the less.

If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

Not everyone needs to understand mathematical problems, in fact I'd go as far as saying the majority of people have no need at all for it.

If schools didn't force academia on pupils / children who do not have the will or ability to study them, then we wouldn't be forever be chasing our tails. Vocational studies need to be given far more attention.

 

[JustJack]

If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

Not everyone needs to understand mathematical problems, in fact I'd go as far as saying the majority of people have no need at all for it.

If schools didn't force academia on pupils / children who do not have the will or ability to study them, then we wouldn't be forever be chasing our tails. Vocational studies need to be given far more attention.

Likewise a goldfish will never swim beyond a small parameter, studies have proved that in education you have to attempt to push kids to reach a standard, as opposed to labelling them prematurely.

Many will never need to remember the detail of equations, but they need to be able to problem solve and that is fundamentally what math is, its the implicit nature of the skill that is important.

 

[3swan]

Likewise a goldfish will never swim beyond a small parameter, studies have proved that in education you have to attempt to push kids to reach a standard, as opposed to labelling them prematurely.

Many will never need to remember the detail of equations, but they need to be able to problem solve and that is fundamentally what math is, its the implicit nature of the skill that is important.

I partly agree about pushing kids, but that can also be done in teaching them more of the day to day maths that they will need in life.

The curriculum should not always be based on an exam goal, but giving children the best start in life possible.

 

[Neath_Jack]

Likewise a goldfish will never swim beyond a small parameter, studies have proved that in education you have to attempt to push kids to reach a standard, as opposed to labelling them prematurely.

Many will never need to remember the detail of equations, but they need to be able to problem solve and that is fundamentally what math is, its the implicit nature of the skill that is important.

And a lot of those goldfish will be happier swimming in their small bowls. The damage the current education system does to many youngsters is irreversible. Making them feel stupid, that they are not worthy, all because they can't pass a maths exam. I interview and nurture trade apprentices in my job, and many of them are broken before they start.

Horses for courses, let those academic types do their thing, and let the rest of us crack on with vocational studies. I left school without a single GCSE above C grade, and I haven't done too badly. Even today the CITB are now pushing for trade apprentices to get 3 C's or above to be able to enroll on trade apprenticeships, it's a load of nonsense. Academic exam results do not make a good bricklayer or carpenter.

The educational system needs massive reform.

 

[3swan]

And a lot of those goldfish will be happier swimming in their small bowls. The damage the current education system does to many youngsters is irreversible. Making them feel stupid, that they are not worthy, all because they can't pass a maths exam. I interview and nurture trade apprentices in my job, and many of them are broken before they start.

Horses for courses, let those academic types do their thing, and let the rest of us crack on with vocational studies. I left school without a single GCSE above C grade, and I haven't done too badly. Even today the CITB are now pushing for trade apprentices to get 3 C's or above to be able to enroll on trade apprenticeships, it's a load of nonsense. Academic exam results do not make a good bricklayer or carpenter.

The educational system needs massive reform.

These comments stand out for me

" Academic exam results do not make a good bricklayer or carpenter."

"The educational system needs massive reform"

I left school with just about average results but was easy to get an apprenticeship (50 years ago).

It didn't do me any harm and kept employed in the car industry till retirement.

Maybe 30 years ago, the recruitment changed and many starting jobs required some type of degree.

I had dealings with many, that to put it bluntly were rubbish at their jobs, and couldn't think away from the process sheets.

Children are being let down by people who only look at education in one way. The number of times teaching methods have changed while my two sons were at school, were imo playing at it but not changing the core problems.

 

[Neath_Jack]

Children are being let down by people who only look at education in one way.

That is absolutely bang on the money for me.

All about them hitting government targets, then when the kids have left school they are no longer their problem. Many thrown on the scrap heap, feeling worthless because they weren't "good" enough to pass said exams.

 

[JustJack]

And a lot of those goldfish will be happier swimming in their small bowls. The damage the current education system does to many youngsters is irreversible. Making them feel stupid, that they are not worthy, all because they can't pass a maths exam. I interview and nurture trade apprentices in my job, and many of them are broken before they start.

Horses for courses, let those academic types do their thing, and let the rest of us crack on with vocational studies. I left school without a single GCSE above C grade, and I haven't done too badly. Even today the CITB are now pushing for trade apprentices to get 3 C's or above to be able to enroll on trade apprenticeships, it's a load of nonsense. Academic exam results do not make a good bricklayer or carpenter.

The educational system needs massive reform.

I don't disagree re the education system, but the terrible surrounding framework doesn't mean that the core (Math, English, Science) are equally poor.

You won't find me arguing that exams work, likewise learning something in parrot fashion without application. We are suffering for a lack of skills concerning critical thinking and problem solving, hence why I think Math is so important.

 

[Neath_Jack]

I’m not always a great fan of Jenkins, but this is pretty much on point, if a little simplistic. Well worth a read.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/05/maths-schools-rishi-sunak-arts-sport

Just read that article, completely agree with it. See if I had listened in school I could have written that, instead of clumsily saying what he did