Get vaccinated or stay home

[Jack2jack]

i'll put my case more simply, as we will end up going around in circles, and start quoting data and more data, and stuff from the internet. And please bear in mind it is only my opinion. I do not see any problem with anyone choosing to have or not to have a vaccine, it is down to personal choice, everyone must be given that choice. now when it comes to being forced to do something that you don't want to do then I have a problem with it, and it has nothing to do with being irresponsible or responsible. Yes we do live in a democracy of sorts, although arguably that's another debate. I certainly do not want to live in a society whereby things are thrust upon you, with no choice whatsoever, if folk want that live in Korea or China, where that is the norm, that's fine.
So where will this end, no vaccine passport......No holidays abroad, cant pick your kids up from school, no going to the cinema, football matches, the list goes on and on.
On aside note did I say or have I ever said, that we should not abide by the current rules, and that we should blindly go about our business not giving a f**k about anyone else. Have I ever said I don't care or that I don't respect the virus and what it is doing to folk in their everyday lives. No, all I have said is that there should be a choice, and that restricting folk because they don't want a vaccine to my way of thinking is wrong.
Have a good day fella.

Two points I would make here

1. Totally agree about freedom of choice, BUT this vaccination approach will only work if a sufficient proportion of the population takes it. In that sense it is not like choosing not to wear a seatbelt.

2. I fear that taking the vaccine may end up being essentially compulsory. So for example, any job application may require confirmation of a vaccine having been taken or buying a plane ticket etc etc

So are we advocating that it will become mandatory or law, that takes away freedom of choice, not sure that is going to sit well with everyone to be honest.
Tell me why isn't it compulsory for everyone to be vaccinated against Flu then, tens of thousands die in the UK every year from flu. I assume no one gives a toss about that.
I respect your opinion Legoman, but I think this is an debate that no one will agree on, depending on ones point of view.

 

[legoman]

Two points I would make here

1. Totally agree about freedom of choice, BUT this vaccination approach will only work if a sufficient proportion of the population takes it. In that sense it is not like choosing not to wear a seatbelt.

2. I fear that taking the vaccine may end up being essentially compulsory. So for example, any job application may require confirmation of a vaccine having been taken or buying a plane ticket etc etc

So are we advocating that it will become mandatory or law, that takes away freedom of choice, not sure that is going to sit well with everyone to be honest.
Tell me why isn't it compulsory for everyone to be vaccinated against Flu then, tens of thousands die in the UK every year from flu. I assume no one gives a toss about that.
I respect your opinion Legoman, but I think this is an debate that no one will agree on, depending on ones point of view.

errrr, I'm not disagreeing with you, J2J!

 

[Jack2jack]

So are we advocating that it will become mandatory or law, that takes away freedom of choice, not sure that is going to sit well with everyone to be honest.
Tell me why isn't it compulsory for everyone to be vaccinated against Flu then, tens of thousands die in the UK every year from flu. I assume no one gives a toss about that.
I respect your opinion Legoman, but I think this is an debate that no one will agree on, depending on ones point of view.

errrr, I'm not disagreeing with you, J2J!

I know you were just throwing it out there, sorry if I came over as a bit arsey, wasn't my intention.

 

[controversial_jack]

If i had the vaccine that was 90% effective , or so they claim, I would be concerned that i was in the 10% bracket that wasn't protected.I would still keep away from crowds and mask up until i was certain that the virus had been overcome.I think it will natural die or and stop sreading by the summer and that vaccinations will once more claim the credit as has been the case in the past

 

[legoman]

If i had the vaccine that was 90% effective , or so they claim, I would be concerned that i was in the 10% bracket that wasn't protected.I would still keep away from crowds and mask up until i was certain that the virus had been overcome.I think it will natural die or and stop sreading by the summer and that vaccinations will once more claim the credit as has been the case in the past

So genuine question, have you always behaved in a way that would minimize your chance of catching a cold (some of which are coronaviruses)? It makes complete sense to practice good hygiene regardless of whether there is a pandemic or not. So keep your hands washed particularly after a "bathroom" visit and before preparing food and/or eating. Try not to touch your face especially your eyes.

I realize this covid-19 virus has scared the bejusus out of everyone but we must keep in mind over 99% of people fight it off naturally and most suffer no more than they would with a common or garden cold.

I'm not telling you what to do CJ, but we have to keep this in proportion. Remember, pandemics tend to strike every 100 years or so, just our luck this is the first one of the social media age. Does that make you think?

 

[controversial_jack]

If i had the vaccine that was 90% effective , or so they claim, I would be concerned that i was in the 10% bracket that wasn't protected.I would still keep away from crowds and mask up until i was certain that the virus had been overcome.I think it will natural die or and stop sreading by the summer and that vaccinations will once more claim the credit as has been the case in the past

So genuine question, have you always behaved in a way that would minimize your chance of catching a cold (some of which are coronaviruses)? It makes complete sense to practice good hygiene regardless of whether there is a pandemic or not. So keep your hands washed particularly after a "bathroom" visit and before preparing food and/or eating. Try not to touch your face especially your eyes.

I realize this covid-19 virus has scared the bejusus out of everyone but we must keep in mind over 99% of people fight it off naturally and most suffer no more than they would with a common or garden cold.

I'm not telling you what to do CJ, but we have to keep this in proportion. Remember, pandemics tend to strike every 100 years or so, just our luck this is the first one of the social media age. Does that make you think?

I know what you are saying , and hopefully my hygiene is good, however your figures are not correct. The mortality rate seems something like 3.5%. as against the flu which is 0.1%, which makes it 35 times more deadly

It has scared the shit out of me, because Mrs Cj works on the covid ward and has told me some horrible things, grown men crying out for their mothers. I know 3 ppl who have died from it, 1 who almost did and many more who have contracted it and been ok. The randomness of it is scary.

I'm not holding out much hope that the vaccine will work, hope i'm wrong, but i believe common sense and discipline will work better. It did so before vaccines were introduced. If we go back to about 1900, we can see mortality rates improving and not accelerating after vaccines were introduced either ,and improved living conditions, sanitation, clean water , diet, warm homes have done far more to control these things than vaccines have. However, expecting the British public to be self disciplined is a big ask.

 

[Neath_Jack]

If i had the vaccine that was 90% effective , or so they claim, I would be concerned that i was in the 10% bracket that wasn't protected.I would still keep away from crowds and mask up until i was certain that the virus had been overcome.I think it will natural die or and stop sreading by the summer and that vaccinations will once more claim the credit as has been the case in the past

So genuine question, have you always behaved in a way that would minimize your chance of catching a cold (some of which are coronaviruses)? It makes complete sense to practice good hygiene regardless of whether there is a pandemic or not. So keep your hands washed particularly after a "bathroom" visit and before preparing food and/or eating. Try not to touch your face especially your eyes.

I realize this covid-19 virus has scared the bejusus out of everyone but we must keep in mind over 99% of people fight it off naturally and most suffer no more than they would with a common or garden cold.

I'm not telling you what to do CJ, but we have to keep this in proportion. Remember, pandemics tend to strike every 100 years or so, just our luck this is the first one of the social media age. Does that make you think?

You are forgetting long covid.

We have three people working for us, who had the virus which was no worse than the flu.

They are all suffering more now with it, many weeks after they have recovered.

 

[DJack]

My post was in response to your "Removing folks rights to move freely, and stop them doing what they want, we do live in a democracy, do we not."

Living in a Democracy comes with responsibilities. One of which is adhering to the rules/laws of that society and not putting others at risk for your over inflated sense of (personal)freedoms.

i'll put my case more simply, as we will end up going around in circles, and start quoting data and more data, and stuff from the internet. And please bear in mind it is only my opinion. I do not see any problem with anyone choosing to have or not to have a vaccine, it is down to personal choice, everyone must be given that choice. now when it comes to being forced to do something that you don't want to do then I have a problem with it, and it has nothing to do with being irresponsible or responsible. Yes we do live in a democracy of sorts, although arguably that's another debate. I certainly do not want to live in a society whereby things are thrust upon you, with no choice whatsoever, if folk want that live in Korea or China, where that is the norm, that's fine.
So where will this end, no vaccine passport......No holidays abroad, cant pick your kids up from school, no going to the cinema, football matches, the list goes on and on.
On aside note did I say or have I ever said, that we should not abide by the current rules, and that we should blindly go about our business not giving a f**k about anyone else. Have I ever said I don't care or that I don't respect the virus and what it is doing to folk in their everyday lives. No, all I have said is that there should be a choice, and that restricting folk because they don't want a vaccine to my way of thinking is wrong.
Have a good day fella.

Oh dear...


Nobody has said that you don't have a choice, your issue is that you may not like the choice afforded to you.

How the fuck have you gone from living by societal norms straight to China ansd Korea (North I presume as you did not specify) if those norms dont suit your view of Democracy?

As to what you have and haven't said I think the most intersting thing is your belief in naturally acquired herd immunity...really! How many people are you comfortable to see die or live a life of debilitations?

Additionally "So good luck with chucking everyone into a hospital or other institution just because they dont want a vaccination."...who here has promoted that idea?

 

[Cardiffjack]

So genuine question, have you always behaved in a way that would minimize your chance of catching a cold (some of which are coronaviruses)? It makes complete sense to practice good hygiene regardless of whether there is a pandemic or not. So keep your hands washed particularly after a "bathroom" visit and before preparing food and/or eating. Try not to touch your face especially your eyes.

I realize this covid-19 virus has scared the bejusus out of everyone but we must keep in mind over 99% of people fight it off naturally and most suffer no more than they would with a common or garden cold.

I'm not telling you what to do CJ, but we have to keep this in proportion. Remember, pandemics tend to strike every 100 years or so, just our luck this is the first one of the social media age. Does that make you think?

I know what you are saying , and hopefully my hygiene is good, however your figures are not correct. The mortality rate seems something like 3.5%. as against the flu which is 0.1%, which makes it 35 times more deadly

It has scared the shit out of me, because Mrs Cj works on the covid ward and has told me some horrible things, grown men crying out for their mothers. I know 3 ppl who have died from it, 1 who almost did and many more who have contracted it and been ok. The randomness of it is scary.

I'm not holding out much hope that the vaccine will work, hope i'm wrong, but i believe common sense and discipline will work better. It did so before vaccines were introduced. If we go back to about 1900, we can see mortality rates improving and not accelerating after vaccines were introduced either ,and improved living conditions, sanitation, clean water , diet, warm homes have done far more to control these things than vaccines have. However, expecting the British public to be self disciplined is a big ask.

35 times more deadly than the flu , don’t be so stupid. The average age of someone dying from the coronavirus is 82 , and 99.7 % of the population will recover if they catch it.

 

[Cardiffjack]

Maybe people should also listen to Dr Rodger Hodkinson, the chairman of the Royal college of physicians and surgeons in Ottawa, Canada, who is also a virologist.

He is saying it’s nothing more than a bad flu season and everything should go back to normal. He is also saying the governments are leading the people up the garden path, and testing positive for the virus doesn’t mean you have a clinical infection

 

[Jack2jack]

i'll put my case more simply, as we will end up going around in circles, and start quoting data and more data, and stuff from the internet. And please bear in mind it is only my opinion. I do not see any problem with anyone choosing to have or not to have a vaccine, it is down to personal choice, everyone must be given that choice. now when it comes to being forced to do something that you don't want to do then I have a problem with it, and it has nothing to do with being irresponsible or responsible. Yes we do live in a democracy of sorts, although arguably that's another debate. I certainly do not want to live in a society whereby things are thrust upon you, with no choice whatsoever, if folk want that live in Korea or China, where that is the norm, that's fine.
So where will this end, no vaccine passport......No holidays abroad, cant pick your kids up from school, no going to the cinema, football matches, the list goes on and on.
On aside note did I say or have I ever said, that we should not abide by the current rules, and that we should blindly go about our business not giving a f**k about anyone else. Have I ever said I don't care or that I don't respect the virus and what it is doing to folk in their everyday lives. No, all I have said is that there should be a choice, and that restricting folk because they don't want a vaccine to my way of thinking is wrong.
Have a good day fella.

Oh dear...


Nobody has said that you don't have a choice, your issue is that you may not like the choice afforded to you.

How the fuck have you gone from living by societal norms straight to China ansd Korea (North I presume as you did not specify) if those norms dont suit your view of Democracy?

As to what you have and haven't said I think the most intersting thing is your belief in naturally acquired herd immunity...really! How many people are you comfortable to see die or live a life of debilitations?

Additionally "So good luck with chucking everyone into a hospital or other institution just because they dont want a vaccination."...who here has promoted that idea?

Oh dear what!
My issue is the Hobsons choice you are advocating ie get a vaccine and spend the rest of your life not being able to do the things you want to do, freely and without restrictions. if folk want to stay in their houses for the rest of time, because the media and Government have scared the bejesus out of them fair enough, but for those who want to crack on with life, please allow them to do so, as long as they follow the basic rules. The OP posted an article suggesting that Quantas CEO has said that if you don't get vaccinated you will not be able to travel, so where will this end.
As to your quip, how many people do I want to see die, what the hell are your talking about, I don't want to see anyone die; so you tell me how many folk is it acceptable to see die every year, of Flu, Pneumonia, Car accidents etc, etc go on let me know.
How have I gone from Democracy to what goes on in N Korea, well have a look on the internet, and see what goes on there, that'll tell you all you need to know about a non democratic society, where you are told what to do and what not to do.
As to hospitalisation of folk, was it not you who, posted some extract of the bloody health Act.Was that relevant? please explain, couldn't be arsed to read it.
I do apologies if my views are not wholly aligned to yours, but there we have it. Come back to me on this if you want the last word, don't expect a reply, as we shall never agree.
You take care now, ATB

 

[Cardiffjack]

Oh dear...


Nobody has said that you don't have a choice, your issue is that you may not like the choice afforded to you.

How the fuck have you gone from living by societal norms straight to China ansd Korea (North I presume as you did not specify) if those norms dont suit your view of Democracy?

As to what you have and haven't said I think the most intersting thing is your belief in naturally acquired herd immunity...really! How many people are you comfortable to see die or live a life of debilitations?

Additionally "So good luck with chucking everyone into a hospital or other institution just because they dont want a vaccination."...who here has promoted that idea?

Oh dear what!
My issue is the Hobsons choice you are advocating ie get a vaccine and spend the rest of your life not being able to do the things you want to do, freely and without restrictions. if folk want to stay in their houses for the rest of time, because the media and Government have scared the bejesus out of them fair enough, but for those who want to crack on with life, please allow them to do so, as long as they follow the basic rules. The OP posted an article suggesting that Quantas CEO has said that if you don't get vaccinated you will not be able to travel, so where will this end.
As to your quip, how many people do I want to see die, what the hell are your talking about, I don't want to see anyone die; so you tell me how many folk is it acceptable to see die every year, of Flu, Pneumonia, Car accidents etc, etc go on let me know.
How have I gone from Democracy to what goes on in N Korea, well have a look on the internet, and see what goes on there, that'll tell you all you need to know about a non democratic society, where you are told what to do and what not to do.
As to hospitalisation of folk, was it not you who, posted some extract of the bloody health Act.Was that relevant? please explain, couldn't be arsed to read it.
I do apologies if my views are not wholly aligned to yours, but there we have it. Come back to me on this if you want the last word, don't expect a reply, as we shall never agree.
You take care now, ATB

The fear is that you will have to receive the vaccine not because it becomes law, but because you’ll need it to function in everyday life, work, holidays, etc.
If my fears are confirmed, then it won’t be the end of such draconian measures, but only the start and all for a virus that has an average death age of 82.

 

[Monty]

87% of Cancer deaths are people over 50. Should everyone under 50 ignore that too, seeing as you've only got a 13% chance of dying from it if you're under 50?

 

[Cardiffjack]

87% of Cancer deaths are people over 50. Should everyone under 50 ignore that too, seeing as you've only got a 13% chance of dying from it if you're under 50?

What a stupid comparison. When was the last time we locked down due cancer ?

 

[Monty]

87% of Cancer deaths are people over 50. Should everyone under 50 ignore that too, seeing as you've only got a 13% chance of dying from it if you're under 50?

What a stupid comparison. When was the last time we locked down due cancer ?

I was just making the point that your 'average death age of 82' stat is meaningless